VB-Consolidation
03-29-2018, 01:20 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Dec 2016
Position: FedEx
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by busdriver12
My suggestion is to ditch this ASAP and start concentrating on getting negotiations lined up before the contract ends. No reason to stretch it out for years, start early and get a decent contract hashed out.
As far as retirement goes, concentrate on increasing the cap to greater than 260K, cash over cap, greater B fund, and profit sharing. Get simple fixes that can't be "reinterpreted" in whatever way works best for the company and worst for us. We are falling behind the majors pretty quickly, and they are already talking about their next contracts.
As far as retirement goes, concentrate on increasing the cap to greater than 260K, cash over cap, greater B fund, and profit sharing. Get simple fixes that can't be "reinterpreted" in whatever way works best for the company and worst for us. We are falling behind the majors pretty quickly, and they are already talking about their next contracts.
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03-29-2018, 07:18 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by busdriver12
My suggestion is to ditch this ASAP and start concentrating on getting negotiations lined up before the contract ends. No reason to stretch it out for years, start early and get a decent contract hashed out.
As far as retirement goes, concentrate on increasing the cap to greater than 260K, cash over cap, greater B fund, and profit sharing. Get simple fixes that can't be "reinterpreted" in whatever way works best for the company and worst for us. We are falling behind the majors pretty quickly, and they are already talking about their next contracts.
As far as retirement goes, concentrate on increasing the cap to greater than 260K, cash over cap, greater B fund, and profit sharing. Get simple fixes that can't be "reinterpreted" in whatever way works best for the company and worst for us. We are falling behind the majors pretty quickly, and they are already talking about their next contracts.
Start to increase B fund from 9% to 13% over time
Get cash over cap
I think this more equitably addresses different cohorts, and won’t have a negative impact on specific cohorts
Everyone would have an improvement to their total retirement compensation
Second-order effects would be avoided
03-29-2018, 09:52 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by mempurpleflyer
No matter how you slice this, it is just wrong to change the rules mid game. People have made life decisions based on the A Plan they currently have...with all its benefits and limitations. To suddenly freeze that benefit and FORCE them into another plan that can't guarantee them at least the same benefit is criminal in my opinion.
We all make different decisions when it comes to retirement planning. In addition to our FedEx retirement, some invest in real estate, some in the stock market, some in a side business. People make these decisions based on what they currently have and their tolerance to take on additional risk. Our union wants to change the rules of the game mid-way through.
Still blows my mind that we are trying to do this to ourselves. This isn't the company's idea...we are not being forced into it because the company is not doing well...fellow pilots are leading this charge.
We all make different decisions when it comes to retirement planning. In addition to our FedEx retirement, some invest in real estate, some in the stock market, some in a side business. People make these decisions based on what they currently have and their tolerance to take on additional risk. Our union wants to change the rules of the game mid-way through.
Still blows my mind that we are trying to do this to ourselves. This isn't the company's idea...we are not being forced into it because the company is not doing well...fellow pilots are leading this charge.
03-30-2018, 04:07 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by DLax85
Keep current A plan (High 5 concept) - index cap to new IRS limit of $275K and keep it rising annually without further need to negotiate every contract
Start to increase B fund from 9% to 13% over time
Get cash over cap
I think this more equitably addresses different cohorts, and won’t have a negative impact on specific cohorts
Everyone would have an improvement to their total retirement compensation
Second-order effects would be avoided
Start to increase B fund from 9% to 13% over time
Get cash over cap
I think this more equitably addresses different cohorts, and won’t have a negative impact on specific cohorts
Everyone would have an improvement to their total retirement compensation
Second-order effects would be avoided
Perfect plan!!!! Fair for every pilot.
Why make this so complicated and take on the market risk of the VB plan?
03-30-2018, 04:45 AM
#26
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: let it snow, let it snow, let it snow
Posts: 829
Originally Posted by Sloper
Perfect plan!!!! Fair for every pilot.
Why make this so complicated and take on the market risk of the VB plan?
Why make this so complicated and take on the market risk of the VB plan?
Would've been a great platform last contract. I'm sure all pilots can shake their head yes to that. Problem is, it is a big "no way, too expensive" for the company and they already drew their line in the sand on not improving the DB plan on last contract. Isn't the whole point of this VB search a supposed win-win in that the company's retirement funding rules will be relaxed and it will free up billions for them. Why not focus on how much the company will save and applying some of that to the plan transition. It shouldn't be a 1:1 transition from DB to VB. It should be plain and clear that even in the worst case scenario the VB plan is plussed up enough by a portion of the company's savings to make sure it is significantly better than what we already have.
03-30-2018, 05:40 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
Originally Posted by NoHaz
Would've been a great platform last contract. I'm sure all pilots can shake their head yes to that. Problem is, it is a big "no way, too expensive" for the company and they already drew their line in the sand on not improving the DB plan on last contract. Isn't the whole point of this VB search a supposed win-win in that the company's retirement funding rules will be relaxed and it will free up billions for them. Why not focus on how much the company will save and applying some of that to the plan transition. It shouldn't be a 1:1 transition from DB to VB. It should be plain and clear that even in the worst case scenario the VB plan is plussed up enough by a portion of the company's savings to make sure it is significantly better than what we already have.
03-30-2018, 05:48 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by NoHaz
Would've been a great platform last contract. I'm sure all pilots can shake their head yes to that. Problem is, it is a big "no way, too expensive" for the company and they already drew their line in the sand on not improving the DB plan on last contract. Isn't the whole point of this VB search a supposed win-win in that the company's retirement funding rules will be relaxed and it will free up billions for them. Why not focus on how much the company will save and applying some of that to the plan transition. It shouldn't be a 1:1 transition from DB to VB. It should be plain and clear that even in the worst case scenario the VB plan is plussed up enough by a portion of the company's savings to make sure it is significantly better than what we already have.
My biggest issue with the VB plan is that it is not going to be equal for every pilot. The guys/gals with close to 25 years of service are going to be the big winners. The rest of us are taking a big gamble for the potential of a very small gain.
The Defined Benefit plan throughout the corporate world is dead. I think deep down, most of us realize that gains in the A plan are going to be very, very difficult. My simple solution to the A plan issue is to allow every pilot on the property to continue to work under the current system until 25 years of service and then convert to a BIG B plan. New hires could start immediately on the BIG B plan. Please hold your comments about how this will split the crew force, someday they will be the majority, etc. If I were a new hire today, I would rather have a BIG B plan than the death by inflation A plan we have today.
If I've learned anything in my years at the company, it is that they will twist language/intent of the contract to their advantage. 777 pay rates and lie flat seats are only the latest examples of what the Union negotiators were certain would work out for us.
I guess the VB plan will be the next thing to add to the ever growing list!
04-02-2018, 06:23 AM
#29
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
04-02-2018, 06:43 AM
#30
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by MaydayMark
Very Sadly, many are not paying attention or are extremely ignorant on how the "floor benefit" is earned under the proposed VB plan.
They don't grasp how using "Career Average Earnings" instead of our current "High 5" method will put EVERY new pilot who works under this proposed plan at a disadvantage
....and only "assumed market returns" can save them.
The union has yet to put out the assumed upgrade timeline.
Who wants to take a shot?
Narrow Body FO to start
Widebogy FO in 5 years
NB Capt in 10 years
WB Capt in 15 years
Bid each seat at 80% seniority? Will that get you off reserve, get you a VTO, allow you to hold a junk line?
70% of our guys commute - is the upgrade timeline based on commuters or those willing to live in MEM?
We are currently in a hiring boom that rivals the Postal Contract boom, but how many times has that happened in Fedex's history?
Does anyone remember 4A2B BLGs?
I'm sure the senior guys who suffered thru lower paychecks then surely appreciated they had the ability to adjust their retirement benefit upward under or current "High 5" system.
People have focused on the "variability" of the pension, but the core savings driver will be in the change to "career average earnings".
Do the math!
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