kronan

Wanted to bring the 75 Bidpack commentaries into a more appropriate thread.

Hard to say Worst Bidpack ever with the 76 Indy flights, amongst others, returned to the Bidpack and the expansion of lines\opportunities.

There are some more 3 leg nights, but hard to quantify whether there are more\less than there used to be.

Many of the same routings (FWA-SBN for example), remain the same, and others have been changed.

The one thing I think is still true is the bottom 15-30% have to choose between a crappy line in hopes of making it better, Reserve and deal with commuting to Memphis, or a roll the dice with VTO hoping enough people Use their Vacations or Protect Min Days Off to get some decent flying.

The thing that's most different is most of those hired in the last few years have minimal experience with healthy manning, and how that impacts on Open Time and trip trades

PurpleToolBox

Until the crew force starts filing fatigue reports, nothing is going to change regarding those three leg nights.



FYI, filing a fatigue report is not the same as calling in fatigue. If you operate a particular pairing which is very fatiguing, you should file a report on it. That's the ONLY way these things are going to get fixed.

Noworkallplay

Couldnt agree more PurpleToolBox. No data no problem.

ColCargill

Calling BS on that.

You don't need "data" to know that a 3 leg, no hotel, major city, middle of the night pairing, is fatiguing.

Anthrax

TRUTH. or all these other optimized pairings, the hours of which feature the new and improved contractual limits.

Check 6

Seriously?
The CO doesn't care or gives a rats ass what you know. They only care if the freight gets moved. Period.
Calling in fatigued and NOT moving freight is the ONLY way things get changed....

Noworkallplay

Bingo Check 6. I scratch my head wondering why guys always make these type of statments like “they should know”. Yeh they do know and dont give a crap until you write it up and start giving data points. We must as a group take the time to fill out the reports. This also gives the union information and data to fight it. It should be abundantly clear being that even managment states the same thing on company memos to the pilot group.

kronan

By all means, please expand on the new and improved CBA limits that impact on Night\Critical duty period limits.
The only change that I'm aware of was the Reduction of the ability to trade into a duty period, formerly the Night duty period was 13:30-currently it's 13. (With the caveat that if a trade meets the scheduled duty limits then the applicable duty limit still applies)

As to the 3 leg nights being prima facie fatiguing, I simply don't agree. I will confess that I haven't gone pairing by pairing in the 75 bidpack to view all of the 3 leg pairings, but every one I've found thus far consist of a combination of legs. 1 or 2 into a nap period followed by either 2 or 1 outbound into a legal rest.

For example, one pairing in the 75 bidpack operates into AFW, hub turns to LRD with continuing jet service onto HRL.
Having operated that pairing, or a similar one, multiple times if everything goes right it is in no way fatiguing. Ample rest opportunities in the HUB and Hotel.

It's when things go wrong, mechanically or with the odd interruptions of rest at the hotel via a phone call\house keeping that hopefully result in an individual pilot assessing whether he's tired or fatigued and trying to evaluate whether you can safely operate the trip.
Moving the freight is the least of my concerns. There's a reason there are people on HSBY in AFW and GSO (new and improved with a few, new short leg 3 workday pairings)
There's a reason FedEx has a Corporate Aviation department and multiple pilots on Reserve in Memphis.

Figuring out whether to fly somebody in, or truck the freight is simply not my problem.

My only problem is evaluating whether I can safely operate the flight, and as I've told my tired FOs on occasion...you seem kinda tired, if You're fatigued then I'm fatigued. I have no problems with saying NO. Goes with the 4 stripes.