Adlerdriver

Exactly.
Guess what is considered self help and has been ruled illegal job actions violating status quo in past labor disputes?
Coordinated union actions like:
Sick outs
Mx write up campaigns
Working to rule
Opting to not pick up overtime if that’s been normal Ops up to entering section 6

Hmm,,,, that last one sounds a lot like restricting M/U

Check out the ruling against Atlas pilots just this year:
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...-Slowdown.html

No one is going to put a provision in a CBA that allows immediate commencement of self help measures at the start of negotiations. It simply defies common sense and the whole concept of the RLA negotiation process. I appreciate your optimism, but there’s a limit where that just passes into fantasy.

pinseeker

You shouldn't let a lawyer fly your airplane and you shouldn't get legal advice from a pilot.

Just because the RLA doesn't specifically say what can be negotiated and what can't doesn't mean that you can add language that would be considered illegal.

sweetholyjesus

Agreed.
...

FXLAX

So in other words, you’ve got nothing. I provided the actual law. You disagree. So show me the court opinion, federal regulation, other law, etc that says other than what I’ve pointed out in the RLA itself. Where did you hear this or read this? Where? Show me!

As soon as you do, I will admit I was wrong.


No one is arguing any of that. What I’m saying is that having a work rule negotiated that says no overtime pick up by pilots during negotiations is not violating status quo. This is not a complex concept. That is, if something is in the contract, it’s not violating status quo by complying with it. That is common sense.


Air wisconsin has had that in their contract for over ten years. And their new contract they just ratified a couple of weeks ago has retained that exact language.

pinseeker

Lay off the coffee dude. People who are in the profession of interpreting the law, you know, lawyers, disagree all the time. That’s why they go to court. You said that the RLA doesn’t say what you can and can’t negotiate. I simply pointed out that that doesn’t give you permission to include items that are illegal. Whether it’s legal or not is up to the courts to decide if it ever got that far.

Show me something more concrete than your interpretation of the RLA. Show me a court ruling that says you can have rules in the contract that only apply while in section 6. Show me a contract that has special work rules that are only applicable during section 6. If you can’t do that, show my your law degree and what tell me what state you are licensed to practice law and what type of law you practice, and I will weigh your opinion more than that of Adler.

Contract law and the RLA can be tricky. I have read the RLA, and tend to agree with Adler. Sorry to burst your bubble.

bleedairpacks

Best job I ever had in the world was trolling the friendly skies in an MD-11.

FXLAX

I simply said the RLA doesn’t prevent negotiating specific contract terms, in this case, overtime during negotiations. I provided links to the RLA. So it’s up to anyone trying to say that something that isn’t in the law is what current practice is. So show me how something that isn’t in the law, lawful. Show me a legal interpretation from the NMB, or a court opinion, or a regulation. I’m simply saying the RLA doesn’t prevent what you say it prevents and showed you how that is fact. You say that simply because it doesn’t say you can’t, means you can’t. So where did you hear that? Where did you read it? Where?

Simply saying that just because there isn’t a contract with certain language, doesn’t mean it’s illegal. More than likely it means that it’s too costly to attain.

Until then, I’ll continue to say, you’ve got nothing, like Alder. When you do, I’ll admit I’m wrong. Which I will freely admit it can happen...again.

pinseeker

You haven’t shown anything other than a link to the RLA and what you think it means. So you have nothing either except an opinion.

I’ll take legal advice from you when you let me handle your financial advice. Until then, I’ll stick to flying airplanes and thinking that you are wrong.

hoya saxa

One thing I love about FedEx is how tough and argumentative the pilots are on semi-anonymous forums. But in person they’re just mostly fat, balding dudes.


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gatorhater

We don’t have a monopoly there, You can get that at any airline.