kronan

Whether the internet guru's like it or not, a PSPP style Plan IS a Pension Plan. You don't get PBGC coverage of your 401k, don't get PBGC coverage of your B plan, will get PBGC coverage if we transition to a PSPP style plan.

Opponents seem to come down to 2 things.
1. ALPA will "forget" to negotiate for a floor value\benefit language will be subject to interpretation (See Lie Flat's grievance)
2. Stock market will implode and the Trust will be unable to sustain a floor benefit and FedEx won't be required to add $$ to the Trust in order to fully pay benefits. (See Japan's stock market, Japan still hasn't returned to it's market highs)

1. Got nothing for you here, other than this is the one segment of our Contract that the Governments fully on our side. ERISA law is on the Employee's side. RLA is heavily stacked against us. There's no rational reason that a Grievance takes multi-years to fully process. No real reason we couldn't have a new contract within 6-12 months. No reason under than RLA's keep the freight moving.
2. Not quite sure why this only impacts a PSPP style plan. Even so, people tend to forget that a component of the plan is FedEx being required to put money into our Pension trust each and every year, not just when they feel like it. And as Fastburner can attest, FedEx has put some pretty big chunks of cash into the FedEx Pension Trust ($$ not just to us, but for every FedEx employee covered by their original pension or the Portable Pension which was imposed on them over a decade ago). And even in Japan, there's been some darn good returns as they work back towards their market highs.
Add in the simple reality that there would be very FEW people drawing on the assets initially should we transition to a PSPP style plan. Something that's counter-intuitive is that in a way, we'd benefit from 2 or 3 down years at the beginning of a PSPP style pension...just as Dollar Cost Averagers benefit in mutual funds. (For those of us who're financially literate, last springs market collapse was the best buying opportunity the majority of us will ever have. And has certainly resulted in some eye watering 1 year returns)

And now one other slam, the "some of us" will have to be bought up to the 1999 standard. The Some of US are the QOL folks who plan on spending the first 10-18 years of their FedEx career working 50% of their BLG (+/- some unknowable percentage)
Working a fraction of your BLG has a Huge Impact on the final outcome of your 401k\B plan final value. Warren Buffet is revered as an Investor due pretty much to the longevity of his investing career and the miracle of Compounding Interest (something WE don't benefit from in a PSPP style plan, but our Pension Trust will)
IMO- some people will continue to make that choice. They might have family money, military pension, but an individual choice.

There are so many posts on a PSPP style plan, really have to wonder at the mindset of people saying over and over that a Majority of Pilots oppose it. Put up a TA with it and it'll be shot down.
Well, for those of you who're also hardcore on never taking the first agreement. Seems to me the best possible thing that could happen is a PSPP style Pension transition being negotiated. Best of all worlds, "We" get to vote down a TA (Just as Delta did when their NC \ MEC negotiated a modification to their profit-sharing plan for increased guaranteed pay). Finally a No vote for a TA and one that will result in a New group of leaders for Our Union.

Unfortunately, a PSPP style transition isn't going to be negotiated in, because I've also learned here that a PSPP style Defined Benefit Plan is MORE expensive than improving our Traditional Plan.
And if there's one thing I've learned in my 20 years at FedEx, Management will ALWAYS choose the cheaper option when it comes to Pilot Benefits (See Hotel rooms\Express Scripts)


NIKKEI 225 Index (Japan) Yearly Stock Returns

bitwiser

Why would anyone need PBGC coverage of their own money? Unlike pension money, 401k (or B plan) money can't be taken from you if/when the company goes bankrupt or disappears. No PBGC needed.

Good, then lets cut our losses now and focus on improving our existing A&B plans. It's almost humorous watching the MEC try to push this pancake plan down our throats when it's clear that a very small portion of the pilot group is in support of it.

USMCFDX

Man you are a variable/stabilized/pancake fan boy.

Are you posting this to tighten the expectations of those of us who are 100% against this plan to make us feel better?

Have you spoken to you rep after this weeks meetings? I have and the variable/stabilized/pancake is 100% going to be in our openers.

NewOldGuy

Of course it’s in our openers. PM blatantly stated that over 2 years ago!


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NewOldGuy

I haven’t heard anyone argue it’s not a pension. It’s just a very substandard subpar one in comparison to our a plan. To quote my financial planner, “nobody in their right mind would consider trading your A plan for that!”

Once again, you’ve listed your assumptions as to why people are opposed to the PSPP. Once again, just like someone else pointed out to you a few weeks ago, those are not even close to the top two reasons.
1: Why wait on management to incentivize us to work much harder for less when we can do it to ourselves with this silly plan! Sure, let’s replace high 5 with Every Penny Counts! You’ll never have to worry about guys picking up draft or AVA during negotiations. We’ll never see either again because guys will be beating each other up to pick up straight time, not to mention progression
2: We’ll never have to worry about unity in negotiations ever again. There won’t be any. Every single day that goes by not only do you not have that raise in your pocket but your retirement projections are swirling down the drain. That modeler with the nice never ending never delayed 3% raises, yep, throw it out the window. Say yes to this contract or else....remember Every Penny Counts! We’re doomed by short sighted idiocy.


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UnusualAttitude

Unless we see changes to Sec 24 making our seniority more portable I’m an absolute No on the pancake plan. I’ve made that clear to past and current reps.

hoya saxa

I’ve written to my 3 LEC reps and the MEC officers. 2 of 6 replied and I can guarantee from their responses that pancakes are the centerpiece of their openers. But they were dismayed and “disappointed” to hear I wouldn’t vote for anything that doesn’t have an A-plan FAE cap raise. Oh no, pilots not caving and standing up for what they deserve?! How do we continue to elect idiots who think they’re geniuses?


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USMCFDX

Yep - PM the Negotiating Chair - pilot by profession and graduate of an aviation university knows better than you do when it comes to retirement

JB130

Was that other thread (Council 26 Message - Unpublished) discussing this same subject not going so well for Team Pancake that we needed to start a new thread? OK, fine. Shall we just copy and paste our comments illustrating the inferiority of the Variable Stability Pancake scheme from the other thread to this one?

Having asked those semi-rhetorical questions, I firmly believe informed, respectful debate is a good and healthy exercise. I, for one, appreciate kronan's input and opportunity to respond, debate, counterpoint, thrust and parry the merits of our various courses of collective action....even in a new thread.

So, I'll ante-up with the following food for thought which resulted from my independent quest for knowledge and understanding of this subject....

Both our ALPA-contracted financial advisor and my assigned Fidelity rep gave me their paid opinion on this matter. They told me that ending our existing A plan would "cast more uncertainty and questions on your retirement picture" and "open yourself up more for an unexpected and undesirable outcome." I desire to avoid both such consequences. Another quote that spoke volumes to me...."I wish I had a defined benefit plan such as yours and I imagine most everyone else would too."

Getting out my cutter and paster now to state again what has already been stated....any TA with pancakes will be Dead On Arrival.

This ill-fated endeavor (however well-intentioned) will have wasted our time (that we can never get back) and our money (which will necessarily be followed by MORE of our money), the resignation of our Negotiating Committee, the appointment of a new negotiating Chair and the obligatory time for him/her to spool up, more protracted negotiations with the Company, another TA, more road shows, more phase-in schedules (more delays from what is ours) and finally, after all this UNNECESSARY delay, a new contract in 2023 or 2024. All this because those in leadership have radar lock on dumping the most straightforward, tried, true, solid, calculable, predictable retirement plan available in exchange for one solely reliant on our ability to write ironclad language with no room for interpretation, no loopholes, no wiggle room and not susceptible to accounting "tricks" all the while being critically exposed to market timing because they don't think they are capable of negotiating what their constituents are demanding (hiding behind the leading questions of our member surveys). No thank you.

PurpleToolBox

Kronan ... you are your ilk are the reason why we lost first class seats, why we lost passover pay (the biggest give back in FedEx pilot history), why we now have PBS on property with it now codified in our CBA and why we lost 50% of our reserve lines. You and your ilk are now trying to kill our A-fund. Please stop man. JUST STOP !!!!

ALPA is trying to invent a additional retirement for the Deltas and Uniteds to achieve. This is why ALPA is pushing us to negotiate away our A-fund so we can go down the PSPP hole and be leaders for the rest of the industry.

I was at the Council 26 meeting and it was clear that the PSPP plan was NOT welcome by the majority. Where is the evidence that the majority supports the PSPP? I smell another lawsuit coming. And this time I'm joining it if ALPA decides to run with the PSPP plan.