Don’t come to work SICK!!!
 

Apparently this PSA needs to be broadcasted periodically. There is no excuse for it. Sick=stay home!! Especially these days...sheesh

Agreed. If in doubt, do NOT tough it out.

But the MEC just worked it out with ALPA that sick buy back isn't subject to union dues. :rolleyes:

What event are talking about? Is it the recent one in SYD?

I am talking about NOT coming to work coughing and sneezing in the cockpit...

What are your thoughts on farting?

Isn’t that what the O2 masks are for? I think it’s a phase one across all fleets?

Beans, beans, and musical fruits. The more you eat, the more you toot.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but employees in good standing do not have any penalty points on their secret profile from using sick leave. As long as employees are dis-incentivized from using sick time by the threat of discipline or a company-mandated medical evaluation by a doctor of the company's choosing, pilots will be compelled to come to work sick if in fear of retribution.

OP's beef is with the company's power (enabled by the current contract), not employees who are trying to remain out of the CP's office or a hire-or-fire medical exam that will follow one forever if terminated. Don't think I noticed removing this clause as a priority in our openers brief so one ought to make peace with the current situation.

Bottom line - don't hate the sniffles, hate the game. DR K

Make sure there are more than two people in the cockpit, then let em rip. Plausible deniability.

Why should you pay dues on it? You don’t get charged dues if they contribute it to your DC. Why “ALPA tax” the guy who already saved and maxed out. Maybe you’re joking and I’m slow…probably the case.

I was told that you don’t pay union dues on anything you are paid for after your retirement date. So I would think that’s your vacation sell back, earned vacation for the next year, and sick bank payout. Not sure what else.

Here! Here!

Amen, amen, & amen!!!

This sounds more like an excuse for ones inability to make a choice. It seems some pilots have the same problem with fatigue calls. Always someone else’s fault for ones poor decisions.

At my previous major we had “unlimited” sick time yet the same problem. Pilots always making excuses for greed.

Dude stop with your crap already. We are adults/professionals and should be treated as such. We get all these compliments on how well of a job we are doing yet requires a childish doctors note for calling in sick. And we get negative points based on the time of year we call in sick. “Holidays”

We had the same point system at my previous major. Of course nobody knows what the point system is or how it’s tracked. It’s not that hard to provide a doctors note if asked. Go to CVS, Walgreens or a minute clinic. Not hard. Once again you are either fit to fly or not. Thats the authority the FAA gives you as an airman. Stop making lame excuses for not doing the correct thing.

No excuses here, if I’m sick then I’m sick. However I shouldn’t have to provide a doctors note. If I’m out of sick time then don’t pay me period.

What if one is just “sick and tired of….” Does that count as sick?

That counts. I have called CVS and gotten a note for that. May have said I had ear congestion also. It cost all of 10 dollars and a few minutes. Even small communities have minute clinics that have the ability for a call in sick note for work. Done

That doesn’t make it right to require a doctors note from employees who are regarded as professional. We sleep on the same bunks, different hotel rooms in various countries where the food is not the best sometimes. We can get sick at anytime. A note shouldn’t be required period

Every time I ask for a sick note, my doctor laughs. Says. “You have all that responsibility, but they treat you like a grade school kid.”

It’s a pretty simple decision for most non-trolls and pilots who care about their livelihood and employability.

If you’ve had the third party vendor contact you for a doctor’s note, many pilots will decide not to use sick time in the near future when they are marginally sick ie sniffles or at the beginning of a possible cold due to the uncertain negative ramifications.

Example - If you’ve had the bad luck of actually being sick on Thanksgiving or Christmas and accumulated an unknown amount of points for using sick time then, what do you do when you when you have a runny nose and cough in March? Easy decision, hop into the jet with the OP and blast off. He may not like it, but he is not the one who will be riding to OKC or ATL or wherever the compulsory medical evaluation is scheduled after the subjectively requisite points are racked up.

Same scenario with sick time on a single departure line that crosses one or more of the verboten holidays and accumulates many points (how many? Good question!). After burning through that year’s worth of sick hours and getting a doctors note request and a call from one’s manager, what happens 3 or 4 months later when you catch a bit of the crud from a family member? Exactly - see you at the folder.

One of the trolls here who most people have blocked wrote that his previous employer has unlimited sick time in their contract and this is only about greed - pretty amazing stuff. You will be a management guy one day that is given a nickname that nobody will forget (and not because your spelling and grammar are so strange) . But this is not greed, it is simple economics. This is about the most efficient use of scarce resources. The scarce resource is not sick time, it is gainful employment at the best flying job in the industry which is put in jeopardy by using a contractual benefit. The decision is easy for many - threats of discipline and termination compel pilots to fly when not 100% well, despite sick hours sitting in their bank.

I would never judge a fellow pilot here for flying when under the weather or with allergies going on or sniffles and cough. I have not seen his secret file and do not know what he’s gone through or is concerned about with discipline or points accumulation. If sick time usage was truly a non-jeopardy event, I would think differently about his decision to fly when not 100% like the OP was complaining about. In the meantime, this is the nature of our contract and the economics of human behavior. DR K

My gripe with people to coming to work sick is that it turns into me getting sick and ruining a vacation trip I had planned and my daughter catching what I have and spreading it to her gymnastics camp friends, who take it back to their family, etc, etc. If you are sick, take yourself out of circulation until you’re better, end of story...now, as a far as sick policy, our union should file a grievance for every single request the company makes for a sick note, make it a pain in the neck for THEM to ask for a sick note...they must have “a good faith and objective reason to question a pilots use or attempted use of sick leave”...make them show their reasoning to require a doctors note.

PG - Personally, I totally understand your frustration with getting sick from a fellow pilot and the real world implications in your life away from work.

Respectfully, I disagree that it if you are sick you can stay home and that is the “end of the story”. With this contract, it is very much just the beginning of the story.

I would bet many pilots have a dialogue with themselves or with their spouses while they are staring at the computer screen thinking about checking the box. They question if they will be required to get a note or have to see a doctor after the fact and do they really and truly feel bad enough to justify the hassle and scrutiny of hitting the submit button. It is a personal decision because this can affect their professional lives - the negative impact of using sick time stems directly from the company’s interpretation of your timing and decision making. If a pilot has had other disagreements with management that resulted in letters in their personal file, all the more reason not to use sick time and face more jeopardy. Even when pilots in good standing err on the side of caution and go to work, your plans are unfortunately the collateral damage.

Doesn’t it seem backwards that erring on the side of caution means going to work instead of staying home when you don’t feel well? That is how this business plan is structured.

Do you know if the Union tracks the number of sick trips and percentage of doctors note requests to ensure the company wasn’t overtly discouraging proper sick day usage? Maybe it’s only a threat to a tiny portion of us and our perception is not justified.

I’m sorry again that your family plans were impacted, but this seems like a situation that is here to stay. DR K

Too bad that the MEC already agreed to the points system years ago. We even went through the last negotiations without addressing it. The MEC started a grievance when the points system first came out. Then they agreed to the final points system, but the specifics were not to be disseminated.

So, there won't be any grievance unless the company strays from the agreed upon points system.

I mean, OK, if you’re one of those people that call in sick 6 or 7 times a year, then get sick and you are worried that 8th call might do you in, fine...I get it. I’m talking about people that only use sick 3 to 4 times a year, you’re NOT gonna lose your job for a sick call

Which is a crying shame...there should be at least 100 open grievances with the company at all times...

let me get this straight. We have pilots that actually think that we should be able to call in sick an infinite amount of times and never have to produce a doctors note?

It really is just a classic example of the rotten few ruining it for everyone.

This is a good example. Your personal guess on the company’s location of the line for sick call abuse is 3 (or 4?) per year. More times than that (5 or more?) and you become an employee on the bad list.

Do credit hours have anything to do with it? What if you don’t exceed your contractual allotment each year, can you still be abusing sick time? How is abuse possible if you underburn? Why would you need a note if you are staying within your annual bank and don’t feel well enough to fly? Do the number of days or actual pairings matter more for your penalty points? What’s the point of those yearly hours which are a contractual benefit if you can be penalized while using them?

Are you comfortable not knowing where the company’s line is when it is a tool that can be used against you? Many are not.

It is rumored to be a rolling 12 month calendar for points accumulation, so make sure the 4th (or is it 5th?) time you call in sick, even for a day, is not in that window dating back to last year.

I’ve heard a guy on the jumpseat state he hadn’t called sick in 20 years and got a request for a dr’s note on his first call. Some newer employees don’t want to deal with secret points or lists when you can possibly be terminated and have trouble finding a similar quality Of life elsewhere.

I’m sure the resident management pilot in training will chime in here about calling in sick when you’re sick with much bravado, but I will ask...why do you get secret points against you for doing the right thing? Something is not right with that, so pilots end up flying when on the fence and their fellow pilots and families get sick. The company pays big bucks to another company to police this situation and there are many pilots (like my future management buddy typing in his mom’s basement right now) who think think that’s a great thing - it will not change so get comfortable and take your vitamins. DR K

Great idea, but the company doesn't consider all sick notes as "equal". I personally know of a guy who was dragged in and had accusations leveled at him because of his doctor's notes being from pharmacies and grocery store clinics. Some bull about it indicating a "pattern" of other things going on. What the hell difference does it make who writes it when the author of the note is doing it well after the fact? That is a pure harassment move to make calling in sick a PITA.

On another note, the two worst illnesses I've had in the past few years came 100% directly from my First Officers. One of which did completely ruin a holiday and a vacation. It's pretty damned frustrating.

We have a perfect storm set up here. The specter of "discipline" hanging over one's head with bad/secret sick use policy, a .50/cents on the dollar payout for hoarding sick time, and a union that apparently thinks all of that is fine.

Merle

In a perfect world let’s say the company publishes what their points system is and how it works. How long do you think it would take for a group of our pilots to abuse it and ruin it for everybody?

I think there is a UAL thread about sick notes...

Stop calling it "sick time" and call it PTO. The current policies are bad incentives especially in a pandemic world.

Going along is what we do best here and some think that buys us some kind of good will capital but like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football you will always wind-up on your back.

Wow, so you’re worry about guys using the sick time they accrued? If the company can maximize the use of the contract language to their benefit why can’t we?

That clown said he worked for a major with unlimited sick time, all you had to do was provide a doctors note. I don't think our pilots would have a problem with that, get sick, go to the doctor and get a note, get paid and don't worry about using up all of your days. Imagine, you wouldn't need a disability bank or insurance. You have a major health issue, and you could go out on sick for years while trying to get your medical back and get 100% pay the whole time. I wonder what major that is/was?

That was Nowolk who mentioned that.

Yes, I know. I was responding to your post stating that the clown you quoted said.......

I was at NoWork's carrier. You had to sign a release of all your medical records to the company "doctor". Nobody said what you needed to be to qualify as the company "doctor".