Originally Posted by nunyabiz (Post 3549226)

You are right that over half our pilot force wasn’t here in 2015. Let’s hope we don’t make the same mistake our predecessors did. Sadly I agree with you that most have chosen dollars over QOL life though and that is even more evident by our “focused negotiations”. How’s that going for us?

There are a few exaggerations in KC’s post but not by much.

Yes, we have R24 lines (24hr callout) but we all know those aren’t being used as originally intended. Check any schedule for someone with R24 and you’ll wanna throw up all over yourself. Hotel standby (1.5hr call out) is the norm. If not, the chances are you’ll get assigned a trip fairly far out. Then nothing on day two and another trip on day 3. So you can’t really commute home so you end up at a hotel/Crashpad just as if you had been on short call. Too many single day trips are assigned to R24 pilots and it makes the lines unbearable. I avoid them at all costs. They are not the good deal that they sound.

I also don’t get the 17% income replacement ratio, but I welcome KC to show his math. There is no doubt that the pension is dying though. As it is not inflation protected the worth of the pension today, is NOT what it will be in 10, 20, or 40 years from now.

As to the FAR limit thing, a huge problem is that not enough pilots call in “fatigued” when they really should. You can see a train wreck coming and try to tell CRS “this isn’t gonna work”. They don’t care. They will force you into a fatigue call and then your actions are scrutinized to see if you’ll get paid or not.

I have called in fatigued and I can tell you the very first question that was asked was “when will you be ready to go?” I have no idea! In the meantime as I’m trying to sleep and recover they revise the schedule to be even worse than it was before. We had to complain multiple times until an acceptable solution was found.

The international extension time is why I personally avoid international trips. My spouse counts on me being home when I say I’ll be home. I can’t take the risk that I need to bid around an event by three days just because my trip is international.

I’ll add another head scratcher for me. Is it not true that at other airlines your trip can pass through base and you’re still on the same trip? That’s not the case here. If you touch base the trip is over.

If you have all hub turns (day or night) through your base those are all individual trips. Your pay (and per diem) stop while you are in base. Doing PM hub turns through MEM? That could be up to a 6 hr sit where you aren’t getting paid, no per diem, the “cafeteria” is a joke, and your catering parameters were based on each individual trip so you also don’t get catering. If you flew the exact same trip but turned through IND instead of MEM you would continue to get paid, get per diem, AND get catering. If you want to eat that catering or not is a whole different story.

Ok, now for one thing I do like…kinda. Deadheads and the ability to deviate potentially cutting time off your trip. We also keep all the airline miles so it can mean you get status. Deviating doesn’t come without risks though. If you deviate on the front end you have ZERO protections if something goes sideways. So plan accordingly. Also it often appears that the company goes hunting for flights where the accepted fare is completely unrealistic. That means if you don’t have the deviation bank you may not be able to get there from where you are. There are also a bunch of rules of HOW you can use the bank, which make no sense as to why the company would care, that can really limit you. Finally with the bank, as it stands the funds are no going away but that is under the COVID MOU and could go away at any time unless our new contract solidifies that the current procedures stay.

Probation is a whole different animal here. They company can and will fire you. While I wouldn’t call it fear it does seem like probationary pilots have to tread very very lightly here. I don’t get the impression it’s quite as harsh at the Legacy’s.

I know personally I came here over a Legacy because of how much FedEx had been talked up. That and what I was told about it being commuter friendly. I’ve found that what I was sold is also a “bunch of half truths”.

I didn’t know if I was ready to move to a Legacy base. Sure you can commute to them but it seemed to me that the commuters I knew at other airlines had it much rougher. I do still believe that FedEx is the best option if you’re going to commute. I’d say you should think really hard about it though because in reality FedEx is great if you are a commuter AND live near a large airline hub where you can get cheap, direct flights for your deadheads. Otherwise, a two leg deviation is still a two leg trip. See my thoughts on front end deadheads above.


You can do all the research you want but the simple reality is there is no way you can understand all the ins and outs before deciding. We do have a fair number of pilots who came over from Legacy’s so I’d love to hear what it was they disliked so much over there that made them switch over.

The knock on too many military folks isn’t an anti-military thing. It’s more that you don’t know what you don’t know. The majority of our pilots don’t know our own contract so how can they possibly know others and demand that we have similar items? They see it as life is better than it had been working for Uncle Sam and that’s as far as it goes.

Originally Posted by nunyabiz (Post 3549226)

You are right that over half our pilot force wasn’t here in 2015. Let’s hope we don’t make the same mistake our predecessors did. Sadly I agree with you that most have chosen dollars over QOL life though and that is even more evident by our “focused negotiations”. How’s that going for us?

There are a few exaggerations in KC’s post but not by much.

Yes, we have R24 lines (24hr callout) but we all know those aren’t being used as originally intended. Check any schedule for someone with R24 and you’ll wanna throw up all over yourself. Hotel standby (1.5hr call out) is the norm. If not, the chances are you’ll get assigned a trip fairly far out. Then nothing on day two and another trip on day 3. So you can’t really commute home so you end up at a hotel/Crashpad just as if you had been on short call. Too many single day trips are assigned to R24 pilots and it makes the lines unbearable. I avoid them at all costs. They are not the good deal that they sound.

I also don’t get the 17% income replacement ratio, but I welcome KC to show his math. There is no doubt that the pension is dying though. As it is not inflation protected the worth of the pension today, is NOT what it will be in 10, 20, or 40 years from now.

As to the FAR limit thing, a huge problem is that not enough pilots call in “fatigued” when they really should. You can see a train wreck coming and try to tell CRS “this isn’t gonna work”. They don’t care. They will force you into a fatigue call and then your actions are scrutinized to see if you’ll get paid or not.

I have called in fatigued and I can tell you the very first question that was asked was “when will you be ready to go?” I have no idea! In the meantime as I’m trying to sleep and recover they revise the schedule to be even worse than it was before. We had to complain multiple times until an acceptable solution was found.

The international extension time is why I personally avoid international trips. My spouse counts on me being home when I say I’ll be home. I can’t take the risk that I need to bid around an event by three days just because my trip is international.

I’ll add another head scratcher for me. Is it not true that at other airlines your trip can pass through base and you’re still on the same trip? That’s not the case here. If you touch base the trip is over.

If you have all hub turns (day or night) through your base those are all individual trips. Your pay (and per diem) stop while you are in base. Doing PM hub turns through MEM? That could be up to a 6 hr sit where you aren’t getting paid, no per diem, the “cafeteria” is a joke, and your catering parameters were based on each individual trip so you also don’t get catering. If you flew the exact same trip but turned through IND instead of MEM you would continue to get paid, get per diem, AND get catering. If you want to eat that catering or not is a whole different story.

Ok, now for one thing I do like…kinda. Deadheads and the ability to deviate potentially cutting time off your trip. We also keep all the airline miles so it can mean you get status. Deviating doesn’t come without risks though. If you deviate on the front end you have ZERO protections if something goes sideways. So plan accordingly. Also it often appears that the company goes hunting for flights where the accepted fare is completely unrealistic. That means if you don’t have the deviation bank you may not be able to get there from where you are. There are also a bunch of rules of HOW you can use the bank, which make no sense as to why the company would care, that can really limit you. Finally with the bank, as it stands the funds are no going away but that is under the COVID MOU and could go away at any time unless our new contract solidifies that the current procedures stay.

Probation is a whole different animal here. They company can and will fire you. While I wouldn’t call it fear it does seem like probationary pilots have to tread very very lightly here. I don’t get the impression it’s quite as harsh at the Legacy’s.

I know personally I came here over a Legacy because of how much FedEx had been talked up. That and what I was told about it being commuter friendly. I’ve found that what I was sold is also a “bunch of half truths”.

I didn’t know if I was ready to move to a Legacy base. Sure you can commute to them but it seemed to me that the commuters I knew at other airlines had it much rougher. I do still believe that FedEx is the best option if you’re going to commute. I’d say you should think really hard about it though because in reality FedEx is great if you are a commuter AND live near a large airline hub where you can get cheap, direct flights for your deadheads. Otherwise, a two leg deviation is still a two leg trip. See my thoughts on front end deadheads above.


You can do all the research you want but the simple reality is there is no way you can understand all the ins and outs before deciding. We do have a fair number of pilots who came over from Legacy’s so I’d love to hear what it was they disliked so much over there that made them switch over.

The knock on too many military folks isn’t an anti-military thing. It’s more that you don’t know what you don’t know. The majority of our pilots don’t know our own contract so how can they possibly know others and demand that we have similar items? They see it as life is better than it had been working for Uncle Sam and that’s as far as it goes.

Originally Posted by 170driver (Post 3549376)

I came from a legacy based in ATL and this is pretty good gouge.

Originally Posted by Huck (Post 3549241)

I did.

I don't engage in historical revisionism, though.....

Originally Posted by nunyabiz (Post 3549382)

So a few questions then:

1. Would you do it again?

2. What drove your decision to make the move?

3. Now that you’ve seen both what specific items do you like better and worse at each?

Not many people get to see both sides of the equation. Everything people know comes from “talking to their bros” not realizing that person is probably looking through rose colored glasses and failing to give the full story.

As my spouse once asked “do you think everyone you talk to is just telling you all the good parts only so that you go there and their seniority goes up as a result?”

Originally Posted by nunyabiz (Post 3549382)

So a few questions then:

1. Would you do it again?

2. What drove your decision to make the move?

3. Now that you’ve seen both what specific items do you like better and worse at each?

Not many people get to see both sides of the equation. Everything people know comes from “talking to their bros” not realizing that person is probably looking through rose colored glasses and failing to give the full story.

As my spouse once asked “do you think everyone you talk to is just telling you all the good parts only so that you go there and their seniority goes up as a result?”

Originally Posted by 170driver (Post 3549433)

1. Yes, however I have yet to see the real benefit from coming here since I left Delta to be based at home in IND. Due to the way new hire classes work you can be stuck in a base and equipment you don’t want for years. There has been zero communication on when the next bid will be so I am just hanging out in Memphis on the 767 for now.

2. See number 1 and also the percentage of widebodies, non bankruptcy era retirement, and vacation benefit.

Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 3549200)

Nice post, but a lot of half truths. A large portion of our pilots have been hired since the 2015 contract was ratified. These same pilots claim to know what's best and have done a lot of research. If they were so smart, why did they choose to come to an inferior airline? These same pilots were bragging just a few years ago about their large pay checks. They were claiming that a 2nd year FO could easily clear over $300K. When pay rates were pointed out, they said that you just have to know how to use the contract. We haven't changed contracts, so why was it so good before, but now it is and has been and inferior contract.

Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3549468)

​​​​​​
Honestly you keep downtrodding these pilots that have come here, mocking them, writing in a condescending prose that “they think they know what’s best and did a lot of research” and that “if they were so smart, why did they come here”

Well, a lot of them were only told the good about FedEx, and then also served a bunch of koolaid too. Then they got here and were shocked at how bad some aspects of our contract are.

Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3549468)

​​​​​​

I’ve been tracking this sub-forum for well over a decade and until this thread, there really hasn’t been a lot of discussion on just how bad the work rules are at FedEx until now. Are we as bad as ATI or other ACMI carriers? Absolutely not. But when it comes to work rules, we are nowhere near as good as the legacy carriers in most areas besides line bidding and vacation. This is pretty unacceptable considering we’ve never been through bankruptcy and we generate an epic amount of revenue per flight compared to a legacy carrier.

Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3549468)

​​​​​​

nobody said every trip, I just gave the maximum number, and 84hrs is not an exaggeration. I’ve had extensions over 80hrs 3 times this year. That’s 10 days of precious time off that have been taken from me.


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Which is still awful. 36hrs of obligation to cover for inadequate staffing/planning is still ridiculous. 12 or 14 hours (enough to be released into rest and then operate back to base) should be the absolute max for domestic. 36 would be barely ok for international.


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Only if you call in fatigued. Then you get to deal with the DO trying to coax you into flying anyway. And then if you still manage to man up and say no, you have to see if your fatigue report gets approved for pay.


​​​​​​
For the majority of reservists, it is. Exception being the small amount of pilots in lax/oak/anc/cgn. And in MEM they can make you do a 1hr callout… talk about a short short short leash.

On the other hand: All reserve at UA is 12hrs unless converted to short call, they’re probably going to be getting rid of their ASTBY on their next contract, and Delta is gonna be 18hrs if their TA passes…


​​​​​​
For anyone not over 45 getting hired here today, the A plan is likely to only be worth 17% or less of their income at 60 years old. But agree your math checks for someone retiring today. The A plan cap needs to be adjusted back to above 50% income replacement like it was in 1999 when this company was even less efficient, less profitable, and had 3 pilots to pay on most of the airplanes.




It doesn’t need to be “either dollars or QOL”

We can absolutely get dollars and quality of life without conceding anything like we have for the past 20 years. Delta has just proven despite their poor company financials that getting both without concessions is 100% attainable.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 3549150)

FedEx's CONS:
Night Flying. Unless you get seniority fast which is unlikely, you're going to be flying nights. Night hub turns slowly kill you. Not joking. And compared to legacies, FedEx's supposed "day flying" is also night flying as you come back to the hub at midnight to 1am. The "twilight sort" at Indy (which is flown by all bases) has a lot of midnight to 10am flying which is slightly different than the 9pm-5am typical night hub flying.
Lagging B-fund: FedEx's B-fund has fallen behind UPS's and is well behind the top legacies.
Dying A-Fund: FedEx's creme de la creme, the A-fund is now down to a 17% income replacement ratio. It is dying due to inflation. It is hardly the game changer anymore.
Section 24 and System Bids: Junior people and new hires will be trained and moved in your seat before you will be -- and you won't be paid for it. FedEx likes long wasteful system bids ... sometimes more than 2-years to train out and execute.
FedEx IT systems ... you'll be shocked as to how hard it is to put in for trip swaps, changing your schedule if even possible, doing expense reports. Yes, you have to do monthly expense reports like reporting hotel receipts and commercial ticket receipts etc.etc. You'll end up buying third party software to bid.
No easy base transfers ... even if you have someone willing to swap with you. You'll have to wait for system bids and then it could be 2 years after that. We currently have folks waiting until May 23 for a base transfer on a system bid that was in Nov 21.
Reserves ... EVERY SINGLE DAY YOU SIT RESERVE AT FEDEX HAS A 1.5 HOUR REPORT TIME. SO YOU MUST BE IN MEMPHIS OR YOUR BASE ON EVERY RESERVE DAY. Unlike the legacies, long calls can be sat at home. And Delta is getting 18 hour call outs!!!
No paid training hotels. You have to pay for your own hotels if you live outside of base.
Yes some of our domestic flights may qualify for catering. Trust me, you don't want to eat the "cold" meals. The hot international meals are ok though.
Even if you are a line holder, the contract at FedEx pretty much means you are on reserve ... the company can pretty much do anything it wants with you and/or your trip. Good luck if you are put into "substitution" ... Chinese arithmetic is probably easier to understand than the substitution diagram. Understanding substitution from reading the contract, impossible. Don't doubt me on this. Also, you can be involuntarily extended up to 3.5 days. It happens especially for international folks.
Operational Emergencies !!! ... FedEx can and will require you by contract to fly to the FAR maximums (that's a 16 hour duty day no matter when your show time was).
On reserves, you can and you will do up to four night hub turns in a week.
No FAR 117. FedEx and UPS operate under the Cargo Carveout. The corporations lobbied the FAA for it. It isn't in your favor.
Very tight manning. Reserve lines make up 10% of the known lines. Secondary or PBS lines make up about 20% of lines. You can and will get assigned reserve status during the Secondary or PBS process.
No profit sharing or other goal sharing incentive programs (for example Delta's on-time performance and baggage goals).
Unlike legacies, if you accidentally bring a weapon (as defined by FedEx security) through security, you'll be fired no questions asked. You don't get your job back. FedEx's restricted item list is much larger than the FAA's.
You fly a lot of extremely hazardous cargo. My personal favorite is Class 4, spontaneously combustibles. I'm not joking. Only the 777s and MD11s have upper deck cargo fire suppression. Good luck at 30 west in a 767, we're all counting on ya.
While the passenger carriers have the passenger bill of rights and they cancel a lot with bad weather, you're going to fly no matter what. As long as it's legal by the FARs, you're going.
Jump seating to long haul flights is frowned upon. The pilot isn't pay protected if there's a disruption with your jump seat flight and you were to fly a long haul flight.
Fred Smith is retiring. FedEx Express (the airline) is no longer his baby. We have no management and they don't have a love affair for pilots or planes. Things are a changing and not in a good way. FedEx hired two SVPs to work on efficiency with the airline.

FedEx's Pros:
More wide body positions
Dying a-fund
Best vacation system
70% of the bid pack (flying lines) are hard lines.
Guaranteed jump seat to work IF able to reserve 21 days in advance

There's probably more cons but it is 1:15 am and I have to go to work.

Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 3548481)

Aren't we blessed that you all chose to come to FedEx after doing your research and knowing that we lag far behind other airlines with the goal of saving us uneducated pilots that came from the sandbox from ourselves. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by BlueAvi8tor (Post 3549983)

Exactly, and WHEN the furloughs start to hasten again because of the deepening recession the legacy folks will be beating down our doors…again.

Originally Posted by UnusualAttitude (Post 3550039)

Two of the biggest issues I've found include lack of awareness when it comes to industry standard and lack of understanding of our own contractual language.

Originally Posted by BlueAvi8tor (Post 3549983)

Exactly, and WHEN the furloughs start to hasten again because of the deepening recession the legacy folks will be beating down our doors…again.

Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 3549200)

Nice post, but a lot of half truths. ... Our contract needs improvement. The question is, are we willing to fight for it. Are you going to chase dollars, or quality of life? It seems to me, most have chosen dollars.

Originally Posted by nunyabiz (Post 3549226)

I also don’t get the 17% income replacement ratio, but I welcome KC to show his math..

Originally Posted by nunyabiz (Post 3549382)

So a few questions then:

1. Would you do it again?

2. What drove your decision to make the move?

3. Now that you’ve seen both what specific items do you like better and worse at each?

Not many people get to see both sides of the equation. Everything people know comes from “talking to their bros” not realizing that person is probably looking through rose colored glasses and failing to give the full story.

As my spouse once asked “do you think everyone you talk to is just telling you all the good parts only so that you go there and their seniority goes up as a result?”

Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3548107)

Had I known the legacies were gonna recover from 2020 as well as they had, I probably would have made a better effort to go there too.

Our contract is a sick twisted joke, and the insane amount of time it takes to change base/equipment/seat here is only one example.

A year ago things were looking great, but now the company has expressed that they have no intention of compensating us for the BS we deal with.

Anyone coming here, please be aware that the company can revise you on a trip an unlimited amount of times without major penalty (you might get 1-3 extra hours of extra pay, IF you are lucky, but not guaranteed).

You can also be extended 84hrs into days off (yes, THREE AND A HALF DAYS) at the end of a trip, even if you're a line-holder.

If you end up on a fleet that goes to China, you're going to spend a lot of time being exposed to carcinogenic disinfectants sprayed on everything and you will be locked in a hotel room with the only extra compensation you get being an extra $100 per 24hrs that goes into a worthless "bank" that you can't even spend on room service.

There's a lot of other areas of our contract that lag behind the legacies in a massive way and unfortunately our pilot group is not well educated on that. A lot of guys here think we have the best of everything because they haven't been paying attention to what everyone else has been gaining in their contracts. We do have some great nuggets like having a real retirement plan plus a B fund (which is capped pretty low btw), good vacation, no PBS, and a few other things, but as far as everything else goes, we're lagging pretty hard and our current negotiators aren't even asking for QOL right now. Just $$$ and retirement.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 3550277)

It was not my intention to post half truths or be misleading, nor divide civilian and military pilots. When it comes to quality of life issues, except for vacation, line bidding for the senior and our travel bank system (which is being attacked as I type), we lag behind other airlines and in some cases regional airlines. I don't mean to bring any disrespect to military folks, as I was one. Another posted stated, we don't know what we don't know. Also, pilots take pride in where they work so they are likely not going to tell you the bad. The problem with FedEx is that the bad is very bad.



I didn't do any math. I thought this was the statement from our negotiating committee folks describing the pension for someone getting hired today. For those retiring today, if you max the pension, the purchasing power of that money today is approximately 27% of when the A-fund was created.



1. Today, no way. I now understand what night flying has done to me physically. After a few years at a legacy I had never made over $100k. A bigger pay check and retirement is what lured me in.

2. The A-plan.

3. Things are different since I made the jump. The commuter situation at previous company was much more forgiving than FedEx's. Now that Delta is getting long callouts of 18-hours (unlike FedEx's joke of 24 hour callout which only apply to a few unlucky souls each month), that is a game changer. If I were a retired military pilot with a government pension in hand, I'd go to Delta, sit reserve in the comfort of my home working as little as possible. Pilots living on the west coast can sit long calls for east coast/NY airports while on reserve. One thing FedExers who commute don't talk about the commute is usually in the middle of the night or even a day before because of reserve rules. Yes you might catch some sleep on the airplane, but you're essentially up all night commuting. A good number of FedEx locations don't have electronic scanners. If jump seating, a security guard or FedEx ramper will rummage through your bags.

The elephant in the room for FedEx is Memphis. Most pilots are MEM based. On reserve, the reserve rules require you to be in Memphis. Memphis has fallen into lawlessness since the BLM riots. They lack hundreds of police officers. Vehicles in FedEx parking lots get broken into frequently. My second crash pad was burglarized twice before I moved out. It is a way of life here that you get numb too. A FedEx pilot was shot driving to work and everyone I know carriers a gun with them. This is why FedEx's policy of getting caught with a weapon is so dangerous to your career. You have to be 100% sure you don't have a weapon or restricted item in your bags. TN law now allows gun owners to drive to work armed and to keep the weapon secured in your vehicle while you're at work. FedEx hates that. FedEx legally fought the law but lost. FedEx wants you to come to work without the ability to protect yourself.

If anyone has any questions they can PM me.

Originally Posted by Noworkallplay (Post 3550585)

Delta AIP document say “18 hour callout for all long call reserve” not for ALL reserves. Have you seen the actual TA language? We currently have 24 hour callout for long call. How much do you want to bet they will have conversion language like we have?

Originally Posted by Noworkallplay (Post 3550585)

Delta AIP document say “18 hour callout for all long call reserve” not for ALL reserves. Have you seen the actual TA language? We currently have 24 hour callout for long call. How much do you want to bet they will have conversion language like we have?

Originally Posted by Noworkallplay (Post 3550585)

Delta AIP document say “18 hour callout for all long call reserve” not for ALL reserves. Have you seen the actual TA language? We currently have 24 hour callout for long call. How much do you want to bet they will have conversion language like we have?

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 3551394)

As I understand from their contract comparison document, Delta doesn’t have short call. All of their reserve is 12 hours. And their AIP will increase it to 18 hours. They can be converted to short call 6 times a month but their call availability is only 9 hours.

As for our R24, they can convert that to HSTBY as much as they want with no limits.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 3549150)

This thread is a must read for new hires or wannabes at FedEx. These are real world posts from pilots who learned the truth after switching to FedEx. The grass is not greener here. There are a lot of cons to working at FedEx.

This thread is so stereotypical of what happens at FedEx. A pilot complains about the contract and someone who hasn't worked at any airline other than Uncle Sam chimes in to say something ignorant. These folks have been told they're they're best of the best throughout their entire military career ... and that FedEx is the best of the best. But IMO, that has changed.

Prior to 9-11 .... that's September 11th for the Zers, FedEx and UPS lagged in work rules and pay. They were considered second rate airlines to Delta, US Air, American, Continental, Northwest and United. After 9-11 bankruptcies and consolidations, legacy airline contracts, especially in pay rates, fell below UPS and FedEx. Suddenly UPS and FedEx were the two hottest chicks left at the dance and it is 2am. Flash forward 20 years. The legacies have been clawing their way back from bankruptcy. FedEx and UPS still haven't raised the bar in term of 2002 pay rates adjusted for inflation. After FedEx's abysmal failure of a contract in 2015, the legacies were now on par in pay. UPS pay rates are much higher than FedEx's. However, folks still preferred to haul boxes over passengers. I get it, I made the jump myself from a legacy. But times have changed. The 9-11 bankruptcy contracts are well past us.

FedEx pilots current pay rates would be much lower had it not been for COVID19. COVID19 slowed the legacies next round of contracts. Now that COVID19 is over and the passenger airlines need pilots ... lots of pilots, they're seeing significant gains in pay rates (for example ... Delta's 34% pay improvement) and quality of life items. But it just isn't about pay too. Future retirements at FedEx are dwarfed by the legacy retirements. FedEx rapidly grew during COVID19 while sacrificing customer service. FedEx's rapid growth is over. The legacies are going to continue to grow. Therefore, anyone hired at FedEx in the next 5 years or possibly more is going to see very slow seat progression. FedEx IS NOT the place to be junior.

I've highlighted in red the typical response when someone says something about FedEx's contract. Every FedEx wannabe should read these comments.And then there's this ...FXLAX: TonyC is right. FedEx had passover pay and a filling of vacancies system that didn't violate seniority. However, in a rush to settle a contract with the company, the union leadership pushed a concessionary 2015 contract to the FedEx pilots and they ratified it. The company schooled the FedEx pilots in several areas of the new contract. This is why TonyC says it's hard to find anyone who voted for it. Why? Because it was a huge setback while other airlines were making gains and they're embarrassed to admit it now.

FedEx pay rates are already behind the legacies. The legacies are going to get huge increases as we've already seen in United's failed AIP and Delta's AIP soon to be official TA. If I were a wannabe, I'd choose carefully. FedEx has too much risk involved anymore.

FedEx's CONS:
Night Flying. Unless you get seniority fast which is unlikely, you're going to be flying nights. Night hub turns slowly kill you. Not joking. And compared to legacies, FedEx's supposed "day flying" is also night flying as you come back to the hub at midnight to 1am. The "twilight sort" at Indy (which is flown by all bases) has a lot of midnight to 10am flying which is slightly different than the 9pm-5am typical night hub flying.
Lagging B-fund: FedEx's B-fund has fallen behind UPS's and is well behind the top legacies.
Dying A-Fund: FedEx's creme de la creme, the A-fund is now down to a 17% income replacement ratio. It is dying due to inflation. It is hardly the game changer anymore.
Section 24 and System Bids: Junior people and new hires will be trained and moved in your seat before you will be -- and you won't be paid for it. FedEx likes long wasteful system bids ... sometimes more than 2-years to train out and execute.
FedEx IT systems ... you'll be shocked as to how hard it is to put in for trip swaps, changing your schedule if even possible, doing expense reports. Yes, you have to do monthly expense reports like reporting hotel receipts and commercial ticket receipts etc.etc. You'll end up buying third party software to bid.
No easy base transfers ... even if you have someone willing to swap with you. You'll have to wait for system bids and then it could be 2 years after that. We currently have folks waiting until May 23 for a base transfer on a system bid that was in Nov 21.
Reserves ... EVERY SINGLE DAY YOU SIT RESERVE AT FEDEX HAS A 1.5 HOUR REPORT TIME. SO YOU MUST BE IN MEMPHIS OR YOUR BASE ON EVERY RESERVE DAY. Unlike the legacies, long calls can be sat at home. And Delta is getting 18 hour call outs!!!
No paid training hotels. You have to pay for your own hotels if you live outside of base.
Yes some of our domestic flights may qualify for catering. Trust me, you don't want to eat the "cold" meals. The hot international meals are ok though.
Even if you are a line holder, the contract at FedEx pretty much means you are on reserve ... the company can pretty much do anything it wants with you and/or your trip. Good luck if you are put into "substitution" ... Chinese arithmetic is probably easier to understand than the substitution diagram. Understanding substitution from reading the contract, impossible. Don't doubt me on this. Also, you can be involuntarily extended up to 3.5 days. It happens especially for international folks.
Operational Emergencies !!! ... FedEx can and will require you by contract to fly to the FAR maximums (that's a 16 hour duty day no matter when your show time was).
On reserves, you can and you will do up to four night hub turns in a week.
No FAR 117. FedEx and UPS operate under the Cargo Carveout. The corporations lobbied the FAA for it. It isn't in your favor.
Very tight manning. Reserve lines make up 10% of the known lines. Secondary or PBS lines make up about 20% of lines. You can and will get assigned reserve status during the Secondary or PBS process.
No profit sharing or other goal sharing incentive programs (for example Delta's on-time performance and baggage goals).
Unlike legacies, if you accidentally bring a weapon (as defined by FedEx security) through security, you'll be fired no questions asked. You don't get your job back. FedEx's restricted item list is much larger than the FAA's.
You fly a lot of extremely hazardous cargo. My personal favorite is Class 4, spontaneously combustibles. I'm not joking. Only the 777s and MD11s have upper deck cargo fire suppression. Good luck at 30 west in a 767, we're all counting on ya.
While the passenger carriers have the passenger bill of rights and they cancel a lot with bad weather, you're going to fly no matter what. As long as it's legal by the FARs, you're going.
Jump seating to long haul flights is frowned upon. The pilot isn't pay protected if there's a disruption with your jump seat flight and you were to fly a long haul flight.
Fred Smith is retiring. FedEx Express (the airline) is no longer his baby. We have no management and they don't have a love affair for pilots or planes. Things are a changing and not in a good way. FedEx hired two SVPs to work on efficiency with the airline.

FedEx's Pros:
More wide body positions
Dying a-fund
Best vacation system
70% of the bid pack (flying lines) are hard lines.
Guaranteed jump seat to work IF able to reserve 21 days in advance

There's probably more cons but it is 1:15 am and I have to go to work.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 3549150)

This thread is a must read for new hires or wannabes at FedEx. These are real world posts from pilots who learned the truth after switching to FedEx. The grass is not greener here. There are a lot of cons to working at FedEx.

This thread is so stereotypical of what happens at FedEx. A pilot complains about the contract and someone who hasn't worked at any airline other than Uncle Sam chimes in to say something ignorant. These folks have been told they're they're best of the best throughout their entire military career ... and that FedEx is the best of the best. But IMO, that has changed.

Prior to 9-11 .... that's September 11th for the Zers, FedEx and UPS lagged in work rules and pay. They were considered second rate airlines to Delta, US Air, American, Continental, Northwest and United. After 9-11 bankruptcies and consolidations, legacy airline contracts, especially in pay rates, fell below UPS and FedEx. Suddenly UPS and FedEx were the two hottest chicks left at the dance and it is 2am. Flash forward 20 years. The legacies have been clawing their way back from bankruptcy. FedEx and UPS still haven't raised the bar in term of 2002 pay rates adjusted for inflation. After FedEx's abysmal failure of a contract in 2015, the legacies were now on par in pay. UPS pay rates are much higher than FedEx's. However, folks still preferred to haul boxes over passengers. I get it, I made the jump myself from a legacy. But times have changed. The 9-11 bankruptcy contracts are well past us.

FedEx pilots current pay rates would be much lower had it not been for COVID19. COVID19 slowed the legacies next round of contracts. Now that COVID19 is over and the passenger airlines need pilots ... lots of pilots, they're seeing significant gains in pay rates (for example ... Delta's 34% pay improvement) and quality of life items. But it just isn't about pay too. Future retirements at FedEx are dwarfed by the legacy retirements. FedEx rapidly grew during COVID19 while sacrificing customer service. FedEx's rapid growth is over. The legacies are going to continue to grow. Therefore, anyone hired at FedEx in the next 5 years or possibly more is going to see very slow seat progression. FedEx IS NOT the place to be junior.

I've highlighted in red the typical response when someone says something about FedEx's contract. Every FedEx wannabe should read these comments.And then there's this ...FXLAX: TonyC is right. FedEx had passover pay and a filling of vacancies system that didn't violate seniority. However, in a rush to settle a contract with the company, the union leadership pushed a concessionary 2015 contract to the FedEx pilots and they ratified it. The company schooled the FedEx pilots in several areas of the new contract. This is why TonyC says it's hard to find anyone who voted for it. Why? Because it was a huge setback while other airlines were making gains and they're embarrassed to admit it now.

FedEx pay rates are already behind the legacies. The legacies are going to get huge increases as we've already seen in United's failed AIP and Delta's AIP soon to be official TA. If I were a wannabe, I'd choose carefully. FedEx has too much risk involved anymore.

FedEx's CONS:
Night Flying. Unless you get seniority fast which is unlikely, you're going to be flying nights. Night hub turns slowly kill you. Not joking. And compared to legacies, FedEx's supposed "day flying" is also night flying as you come back to the hub at midnight to 1am. The "twilight sort" at Indy (which is flown by all bases) has a lot of midnight to 10am flying which is slightly different than the 9pm-5am typical night hub flying.
Lagging B-fund: FedEx's B-fund has fallen behind UPS's and is well behind the top legacies.
Dying A-Fund: FedEx's creme de la creme, the A-fund is now down to a 17% income replacement ratio. It is dying due to inflation. It is hardly the game changer anymore.
Section 24 and System Bids: Junior people and new hires will be trained and moved in your seat before you will be -- and you won't be paid for it. FedEx likes long wasteful system bids ... sometimes more than 2-years to train out and execute.
FedEx IT systems ... you'll be shocked as to how hard it is to put in for trip swaps, changing your schedule if even possible, doing expense reports. Yes, you have to do monthly expense reports like reporting hotel receipts and commercial ticket receipts etc.etc. You'll end up buying third party software to bid.
No easy base transfers ... even if you have someone willing to swap with you. You'll have to wait for system bids and then it could be 2 years after that. We currently have folks waiting until May 23 for a base transfer on a system bid that was in Nov 21.
Reserves ... EVERY SINGLE DAY YOU SIT RESERVE AT FEDEX HAS A 1.5 HOUR REPORT TIME. SO YOU MUST BE IN MEMPHIS OR YOUR BASE ON EVERY RESERVE DAY. Unlike the legacies, long calls can be sat at home. And Delta is getting 18 hour call outs!!!
No paid training hotels. You have to pay for your own hotels if you live outside of base.
Yes some of our domestic flights may qualify for catering. Trust me, you don't want to eat the "cold" meals. The hot international meals are ok though.
Even if you are a line holder, the contract at FedEx pretty much means you are on reserve ... the company can pretty much do anything it wants with you and/or your trip. Good luck if you are put into "substitution" ... Chinese arithmetic is probably easier to understand than the substitution diagram. Understanding substitution from reading the contract, impossible. Don't doubt me on this. Also, you can be involuntarily extended up to 3.5 days. It happens especially for international folks.
Operational Emergencies !!! ... FedEx can and will require you by contract to fly to the FAR maximums (that's a 16 hour duty day no matter when your show time was).
On reserves, you can and you will do up to four night hub turns in a week.
No FAR 117. FedEx and UPS operate under the Cargo Carveout. The corporations lobbied the FAA for it. It isn't in your favor.
Very tight manning. Reserve lines make up 10% of the known lines. Secondary or PBS lines make up about 20% of lines. You can and will get assigned reserve status during the Secondary or PBS process.
No profit sharing or other goal sharing incentive programs (for example Delta's on-time performance and baggage goals).
Unlike legacies, if you accidentally bring a weapon (as defined by FedEx security) through security, you'll be fired no questions asked. You don't get your job back. FedEx's restricted item list is much larger than the FAA's.
You fly a lot of extremely hazardous cargo. My personal favorite is Class 4, spontaneously combustibles. I'm not joking. Only the 777s and MD11s have upper deck cargo fire suppression. Good luck at 30 west in a 767, we're all counting on ya.
While the passenger carriers have the passenger bill of rights and they cancel a lot with bad weather, you're going to fly no matter what. As long as it's legal by the FARs, you're going.
Jump seating to long haul flights is frowned upon. The pilot isn't pay protected if there's a disruption with your jump seat flight and you were to fly a long haul flight.
Fred Smith is retiring. FedEx Express (the airline) is no longer his baby. We have no management and they don't have a love affair for pilots or planes. Things are a changing and not in a good way. FedEx hired two SVPs to work on efficiency with the airline.

FedEx's Pros:
More wide body positions
Dying a-fund
Best vacation system
70% of the bid pack (flying lines) are hard lines.
Guaranteed jump seat to work IF able to reserve 21 days in advance

There's probably more cons but it is 1:15 am and I have to go to work.

Originally Posted by schloppy1 (Post 3555793)

I apologize if this duplicates. Still an FNG at this. I wanted to add to the information going out to potential new guys. As we go back into lean times, secondary line holders may find themselves in a position where the generator can’t fill your line. You’ll get what it spits out plus a bunch of PNP. You could find yourself in a position of getting a 20 hour pay check for the month. This happened to me twice in the pre-Covid lean times. To my knowledge this is a uniquely FedEx phenomenon. Every other airline has a mini guarantee. We have BLG, and for secondaries, all bets are off.

Originally Posted by schloppy1 (Post 3555793)

I apologize if this duplicates. Still an FNG at this. I wanted to add to the information going out to potential new guys. As we go back into lean times, secondary line holders may find themselves in a position where the generator can’t fill your line. You’ll get what it spits out plus a bunch of PNP. You could find yourself in a position of getting a 20 hour pay check for the month. This happened to me twice in the pre-Covid lean times. To my knowledge this is a uniquely FedEx phenomenon. Every other airline has a mini guarantee. We have BLG, and for secondaries, all bets are off.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 3550277)

It was not my intention to post half truths or be misleading, nor divide civilian and military pilots. When it comes to quality of life issues, except for vacation, line bidding for the senior and our travel bank system (which is being attacked as I type), we lag behind other airlines and in some cases regional airlines. I don't mean to bring any disrespect to military folks, as I was one. Another posted stated, we don't know what we don't know. Also, pilots take pride in where they work so they are likely not going to tell you the bad. The problem with FedEx is that the bad is very bad.



I didn't do any math. I thought this was the statement from our negotiating committee folks describing the pension for someone getting hired today. For those retiring today, if you max the pension, the purchasing power of that money today is approximately 27% of when the A-fund was created.



1. Today, no way. I now understand what night flying has done to me physically. After a few years at a legacy I had never made over $100k. A bigger pay check and retirement is what lured me in.

2. The A-plan.

3. Things are different since I made the jump. The commuter situation at previous company was much more forgiving than FedEx's. Now that Delta is getting long callouts of 18-hours (unlike FedEx's joke of 24 hour callout which only apply to a few unlucky souls each month), that is a game changer. If I were a retired military pilot with a government pension in hand, I'd go to Delta, sit reserve in the comfort of my home working as little as possible. Pilots living on the west coast can sit long calls for east coast/NY airports while on reserve. One thing FedExers who commute don't talk about the commute is usually in the middle of the night or even a day before because of reserve rules. Yes you might catch some sleep on the airplane, but you're essentially up all night commuting. A good number of FedEx locations don't have electronic scanners. If jump seating, a security guard or FedEx ramper will rummage through your bags.

The elephant in the room for FedEx is Memphis. Most pilots are MEM based. On reserve, the reserve rules require you to be in Memphis. Memphis has fallen into lawlessness since the BLM riots. They lack hundreds of police officers. Vehicles in FedEx parking lots get broken into frequently. My second crash pad was burglarized twice before I moved out. It is a way of life here that you get numb too. A FedEx pilot was shot driving to work and everyone I know carriers a gun with them. This is why FedEx's policy of getting caught with a weapon is so dangerous to your career. You have to be 100% sure you don't have a weapon or restricted item in your bags. TN law now allows gun owners to drive to work armed and to keep the weapon secured in your vehicle while you're at work. FedEx hates that. FedEx legally fought the law but lost. FedEx wants you to come to work without the ability to protect yourself.

If anyone has any questions they can PM me.

Originally Posted by C2078 (Post 3556363)

It’s because people like Pinseeker, who think everything is great, why your chances of improvements diminish. Your long post was right on the money. The more people accept reality the better contract you will achieve!! Well stated.

We have many of those as well at Brown, it’s an uphill battle.

Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 3556382)

Ok Brown Stain, where did I ever say everything was great. As a matter of fact, I have been criticized for being too hard on the MEC. So, why don't you go enjoy those UPS pay rates that are so far behind the Delta AIP. Why UPS pilot feel the need to insert themselves in the FedEx forum is beyond me, unless they wish they were here.

Originally Posted by FTv3 (Post 3556573)

A. Because your contract has the biggest effect on ours. B. Public forum.

Wishing you guys the best…

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 3557217)

same can be said of the UPS contract yet it doesn’t seem like you get several Fdx pilots posting there all at one time, consistently.

Originally Posted by C2078 (Post 3557294)

It’s called being engaged, staying informed, exchanging ideas which might be beneficial to both groups. Now, have some of us posted less than positive info on this forum at times? Yes. But going forward our interaction should only be information to educate both groups so we can help each other out. One thing that is apparent: lots of disengaged people out there.