Base transfers
 

How do these work at Purple? Vacancy bid? Swap? A new hire going to LAX seems extremely rare from what’s posted here, but is there hope of lateraling over once on property?

Thanks for any insights.

Unfortunately, you have to wait for the next system bid.

Thank you.

There is hope, but we do bids once every two years and then it takes another two years to move into the base you get. Meanwhile newhires will get sent to that base before you do.

So starting and just missing a bid could mean four years of commuting to ANC…That’s good to know. Thank you.

I’m not sure if you’re here yet or waiting on a class date, but if you’re not here, I’d consider going somewhere else. Life will suck here for a long while if you’re junior. This system bid here is a real quality of life ruiner and it saves the company money.

^ What they said. As a new hire you better seriously hope you get what you want (or something tolerable) out of the gate because you’re gonna be parked there for a while.

Our bidding and award process here is just awful. The only way I could see it being worse is if the company just randomly assigned you a new position every two years.

I was dumbfounded when I came on board and found out how screwed up it is. Is there anywhere else that does things this way?

Agree with all above. The aircraft bidding system here is absolutely terrible and is entirely about the Company not wanting to train folks. Our weak contract language allows it. It’s only one example of the Company completely exploiting the contract language against us.

I too would say that if you have offers elsewhere it might be a better choice than coming here. This place isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Dare I say I regret not being at a Legacy instead?

Hiring is about to grind to a stop and a majority of the MEM 777 and 767 training slots for next year are already filled. I’d expect what few new hires we do have to be directed to the 757 and Bus to backfill those who are finally getting their chance to swap positions after a two+ year delay.

Had I known the legacies were gonna recover from 2020 as well as they had, I probably would have made a better effort to go there too.

Our contract is a sick twisted joke, and the insane amount of time it takes to change base/equipment/seat here is only one example.

A year ago things were looking great, but now the company has expressed that they have no intention of compensating us for the BS we deal with.

Anyone coming here, please be aware that the company can revise you on a trip an unlimited amount of times without major penalty (you might get 1-3 extra hours of extra pay, IF you are lucky, but not guaranteed).

You can also be extended 84hrs into days off (yes, THREE AND A HALF DAYS) at the end of a trip, even if you're a line-holder.

If you end up on a fleet that goes to China, you're going to spend a lot of time being exposed to carcinogenic disinfectants sprayed on everything and you will be locked in a hotel room with the only extra compensation you get being an extra $100 per 24hrs that goes into a worthless "bank" that you can't even spend on room service.

There's a lot of other areas of our contract that lag behind the legacies in a massive way and unfortunately our pilot group is not well educated on that. A lot of guys here think we have the best of everything because they haven't been paying attention to what everyone else has been gaining in their contracts. We do have some great nuggets like having a real retirement plan plus a B fund (which is capped pretty low btw), good vacation, no PBS, and a few other things, but as far as everything else goes, we're lagging pretty hard and our current negotiators aren't even asking for QOL right now. Just $$$ and retirement.

I’m not ruling out making the jump. Dusting off the ol resume and updating the logbook. It used to be that there were a fair number of folks from Legacy airlines coming to FedEx. That trend may be reversing if a bunch of stuff isn’t fixed in our contract.


Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a huge proportion of folks who blindly believe we have the best of everything. They fail to accept that other places have it better than we do and demand that we make changes to come up to industry standard. I agree with you on the items we have that are better. Those things shouldn’t be overlooked but far too many people use that fact to dismiss the other areas where we lag so far behind.

Us failing to demand significant QOL improvements will be our demise. We went after pay and retirement and it doesn’t even seem like that is going to impress anyone given some of the other numbers already agreed to at other places.


Bottom line, new folks have choices right now. That hiring pool they talk about may drain faster than they think as pilots decide to take or stay at the Legacy job they already have. Purple isn’t the slam dunk choice any more. Sadly, I don’t think management cares.

Recent hires and poolies voting with their feet might actually move the needle a little with the company. “A rising tide floats all boats” doesn’t work if everyone on your boat thinks they’re already floating higher than the other boats.


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One of the most ridiculous things in our contract is that a junior pilot coming from a FDA can get trained and activated before in a seat you were award and you don’t get Slot Denial Pay. In my view, as long as someone junior to you gets activated in a seat which held on a bid, you should be getting paid at the higher pay rate which you’d have held. This industry is all based on seniority and some how ALPA drop the ball on this.

So many of our company cheerleaders have never experienced another airline prior to FX. But somehow they know we have it the best. In the last few years, we are the bottom feeders in contract comparison. If you have other options, go elsewhere.

Even if most of our work rules were industry standard, it still wouldn’t be enough considering the more difficult schedules we fly. For what we do, we should be industry leading on most things, especially QOL items.

Yes we should. We won’t get that though because too many folks make excuses.

But but…no passengers to deal with..
But but…muh pension….
But but…no PBS….(completely ignoring the secondary system)
But but…vacation…
But but…our % of WB’s…
“Back in my day on the 72 we had to do 6 legs a night sitting sideways and carrying the ‘jug of shame’”

It’s all just excuses to accept the fact that the contract is terrible. I’m just glad I’m not the only one who feels this way because it certainly feels like that’s the case on the line or in the AOC.

Buyer beware. I certainly wish I knew then what I know now

This - IMO - is the biggest problem. Way too many folks here that came straight outta the sandbox and just don’t know what they don’t know. As it sits right now, this is FAR from the best place to be. We can absolutely make it better but it’s gonna take a fight because management has shown they aren’t willing to give us what we deserve.

Aren't we blessed that you all chose to come to FedEx after doing your research and knowing that we lag far behind other airlines with the goal of saving us uneducated pilots that came from the sandbox from ourselves. :rolleyes:

Frankly - yes, you are.

The resistance to change here is mind-boggling. Progress happens at a snails pace. We have officially not required a degree to get a job here since May 2022 but for some reason we still haven’t been able to update the application website to reflect that? Unreal.

Then why don't you grace us with the knowledge of why you chose to come here knowing that our contract was so inferior and why you choose to stay? Those of us from the sandbox need to be educated and FedEx is the only airline that hires military pilots, so we obviously don't know what we are doing.:rolleyes:

I haven't run across anyone who thinks things can't be improved, but the majority seems to think that certain items have priority.

Lots of doom and gloom on apc…to the OP…as a practical example, in less than one year after being hired, I was already at my second base. Yes system Bid timing was in my favor. If you are a west coaster, you should educate yourself about the Oak base as well as considering your commuting options if you got the mad dog in mem or anc. Have a fedex friend walk you through it all before you take advice from anonymous debbie downers.


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You also have to acknowledge that for every example like yours there is someone who was awarded an aircraft or base they didn’t want in BI and then have to wait two years before they are eligible to bid to a new aircraft and then wait an additional two years before they go to training. How long have all the M30FO’s who are finally scheduled to go to 777 training next year (maybe as late as Aug) been here?

You can call it doom and gloom all you want, but the simple fact to the OP is that yes, depending on timing and your initial seniority you can get “stuck” in a seat you don’t want to be in for four years while people behind you are going to the seat you do want

OP sounds like he wants LAX. Mad dog does go junior. Base transfer is likely easier (if you can hold it) than changing to a different wide body in mem. I know we revolve around memphis but some of us have different perspectives. That being said, I do sympathize with your argument.


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Yes thank you, I’m certainly doing that. And I have found without exception every line pilot I’ve approached to be gracious, generous with their time, and helpful, whatever their view. Whatever the issues (every employer has them), pilot culture is definitely not one from my observations and admittedly limited sample size. Appreciate the advice everyone.

I wish them luck. Depending on class relative seniority there may not be any 777, 767, or even MD slots available any where. The complete lack of flexibility is why the Bus goes junior in each class.

It’ll be interesting to see what positions are offered to the few new hires we have next year. With the union finally able to win the case and secure training slots for the 2020 bid the majority of the 777 and 767 ITU classes have been filled.

I agree with you that if you are a West Coaster OAK appears to be a great choice, if available

You are spot on. How junior is the plug at LAX?

Based on what I’ve learned and experienced already JS-ing with y’all, there is enough lift to MEM from CA that I’m good with a MEM assignment. But four years in ANC (might be a lovely place) is a risk I’d need to really assess. Had I a 9000+ SSN I’d not be worried, but I’m at the bottom end of that scale.

Appreciate the dialogue!

While I strongly agree with the sentiment the users here are posting, generally, I think 4 years for a base transfer is highly unlikely. Base transfers go quicker than seat movements. I would suggest your realistic timeline to transfer bases is going to be 1-2 years.

2022 hire is most junior.


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Isn't that the case with everything in life?

I see the pot you’re trying to stir, but as usual you missed the mark.

You know as well as I do that in a seniority based profession it isn’t the way it’s supposed to go.

Base transfers
 

A monthly, seniority based transfer system would fix this issue. Previous airline had it. After the first month, it was a few pilots each month that took advantage of it and they were overwhelmingly super junior, the ones who didn’t get their base when hired. But pilots here don’t like change…

It would be awesome to have but FedEx would never do it because it would cost a couple of lines of code and increase pilot QOL at no cost to FedEx. What will you give up to get it will be the question?

I learned many decades ago, one oh s#&*t cancels out 100 at a boys.

A slight majority of pilots here voted to overhaul our Filling of Vacancies section of the CBA in 2015, and that's the ... show we have now. These days, it's hard to find anyone around who voted Yes.






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MUST READ FOR FDX NEW HIRES or WANNABES !!!
 

This thread is a must read for new hires or wannabes at FedEx. These are real world posts from pilots who learned the truth after switching to FedEx. The grass is not greener here. There are a lot of cons to working at FedEx.

This thread is so stereotypical of what happens at FedEx. A pilot complains about the contract and someone who hasn't worked at any airline other than Uncle Sam chimes in to say something ignorant. These folks have been told they're they're best of the best throughout their entire military career ... and that FedEx is the best of the best. But IMO, that has changed.

Prior to 9-11 .... that's September 11th for the Zers, FedEx and UPS lagged in work rules and pay. They were considered second rate airlines to Delta, US Air, American, Continental, Northwest and United. After 9-11 bankruptcies and consolidations, legacy airline contracts, especially in pay rates, fell below UPS and FedEx. Suddenly UPS and FedEx were the two hottest chicks left at the dance and it is 2am. Flash forward 20 years. The legacies have been clawing their way back from bankruptcy. FedEx and UPS still haven't raised the bar in term of 2002 pay rates adjusted for inflation. After FedEx's abysmal failure of a contract in 2015, the legacies were now on par in pay. UPS pay rates are much higher than FedEx's. However, folks still preferred to haul boxes over passengers. I get it, I made the jump myself from a legacy. But times have changed. The 9-11 bankruptcy contracts are well past us.

FedEx pilots current pay rates would be much lower had it not been for COVID19. COVID19 slowed the legacies next round of contracts. Now that COVID19 is over and the passenger airlines need pilots ... lots of pilots, they're seeing significant gains in pay rates (for example ... Delta's 34% pay improvement) and quality of life items. But it just isn't about pay too. Future retirements at FedEx are dwarfed by the legacy retirements. FedEx rapidly grew during COVID19 while sacrificing customer service. FedEx's rapid growth is over. The legacies are going to continue to grow. Therefore, anyone hired at FedEx in the next 5 years or possibly more is going to see very slow seat progression. FedEx IS NOT the place to be junior.

I've highlighted in red the typical response when someone says something about FedEx's contract. Every FedEx wannabe should read these comments.And then there's this ...FXLAX: TonyC is right. FedEx had passover pay and a filling of vacancies system that didn't violate seniority. However, in a rush to settle a contract with the company, the union leadership pushed a concessionary 2015 contract to the FedEx pilots and they ratified it. The company schooled the FedEx pilots in several areas of the new contract. This is why TonyC says it's hard to find anyone who voted for it. Why? Because it was a huge setback while other airlines were making gains and they're embarrassed to admit it now.

FedEx pay rates are already behind the legacies. The legacies are going to get huge increases as we've already seen in United's failed AIP and Delta's AIP soon to be official TA. If I were a wannabe, I'd choose carefully. FedEx has too much risk involved anymore.

FedEx's CONS:
Night Flying. Unless you get seniority fast which is unlikely, you're going to be flying nights. Night hub turns slowly kill you. Not joking. And compared to legacies, FedEx's supposed "day flying" is also night flying as you come back to the hub at midnight to 1am. The "twilight sort" at Indy (which is flown by all bases) has a lot of midnight to 10am flying which is slightly different than the 9pm-5am typical night hub flying.
Lagging B-fund: FedEx's B-fund has fallen behind UPS's and is well behind the top legacies.
Dying A-Fund: FedEx's creme de la creme, the A-fund is now down to a 17% income replacement ratio. It is dying due to inflation. It is hardly the game changer anymore.
Section 24 and System Bids: Junior people and new hires will be trained and moved in your seat before you will be -- and you won't be paid for it. FedEx likes long wasteful system bids ... sometimes more than 2-years to train out and execute.
FedEx IT systems ... you'll be shocked as to how hard it is to put in for trip swaps, changing your schedule if even possible, doing expense reports. Yes, you have to do monthly expense reports like reporting hotel receipts and commercial ticket receipts etc.etc. You'll end up buying third party software to bid.
No easy base transfers ... even if you have someone willing to swap with you. You'll have to wait for system bids and then it could be 2 years after that. We currently have folks waiting until May 23 for a base transfer on a system bid that was in Nov 21.
Reserves ... EVERY SINGLE DAY YOU SIT RESERVE AT FEDEX HAS A 1.5 HOUR REPORT TIME. SO YOU MUST BE IN MEMPHIS OR YOUR BASE ON EVERY RESERVE DAY. Unlike the legacies, long calls can be sat at home. And Delta is getting 18 hour call outs!!!
No paid training hotels. You have to pay for your own hotels if you live outside of base.
Yes some of our domestic flights may qualify for catering. Trust me, you don't want to eat the "cold" meals. The hot international meals are ok though.
Even if you are a line holder, the contract at FedEx pretty much means you are on reserve ... the company can pretty much do anything it wants with you and/or your trip. Good luck if you are put into "substitution" ... Chinese arithmetic is probably easier to understand than the substitution diagram. Understanding substitution from reading the contract, impossible. Don't doubt me on this. Also, you can be involuntarily extended up to 3.5 days. It happens especially for international folks.
Operational Emergencies !!! ... FedEx can and will require you by contract to fly to the FAR maximums (that's a 16 hour duty day no matter when your show time was).
On reserves, you can and you will do up to four night hub turns in a week.
No FAR 117. FedEx and UPS operate under the Cargo Carveout. The corporations lobbied the FAA for it. It isn't in your favor.
Very tight manning. Reserve lines make up 10% of the known lines. Secondary or PBS lines make up about 20% of lines. You can and will get assigned reserve status during the Secondary or PBS process.
No profit sharing or other goal sharing incentive programs (for example Delta's on-time performance and baggage goals).
Unlike legacies, if you accidentally bring a weapon (as defined by FedEx security) through security, you'll be fired no questions asked. You don't get your job back. FedEx's restricted item list is much larger than the FAA's.
You fly a lot of extremely hazardous cargo. My personal favorite is Class 4, spontaneously combustibles. I'm not joking. Only the 777s and MD11s have upper deck cargo fire suppression. Good luck at 30 west in a 767, we're all counting on ya.
While the passenger carriers have the passenger bill of rights and they cancel a lot with bad weather, you're going to fly no matter what. As long as it's legal by the FARs, you're going.
Jump seating to long haul flights is frowned upon. The pilot isn't pay protected if there's a disruption with your jump seat flight and you were to fly a long haul flight.
Fred Smith is retiring. FedEx Express (the airline) is no longer his baby. We have no management and they don't have a love affair for pilots or planes. Things are a changing and not in a good way. FedEx hired two SVPs to work on efficiency with the airline.

FedEx's Pros:
More wide body positions
Dying a-fund
Best vacation system
70% of the bid pack (flying lines) are hard lines.
Guaranteed jump seat to work IF able to reserve 21 days in advance

There's probably more cons but it is 1:15 am and I have to go to work.

^^^^^Information is knowledge^^^^^ Already had a good grasp of the deterioration from many friends who have been behind the Purple curtain for decades. Everyone should find actual folks who reside at any outfit to learn the pros and cons in order to meet their priorities. Dogs are great - but every dog in our world has fleas, it’s just finding the ones with the least or ones you can live with. Definitely rooting for y’all to turn your ship around for the better. Thank you for a very informative post.

Tons of truth in this thread about purple. The sentiment here is we are better than everyone in this industry. I’m still trying to figure out why everyone thinks that here

Base transfers
 

Good point

So a few of the changes that were ratified into the current contract have been negative. So now the sentiment is, let’s not change anything anymore ever (cementing all the bad things) because we are afraid that it will be made worse.

Nice post, but a lot of half truths. A large portion of our pilots have been hired since the 2015 contract was ratified. These same pilots claim to know what's best and have done a lot of research. If they were so smart, why did they choose to come to an inferior airline? These same pilots were bragging just a few years ago about their large pay checks. They were claiming that a 2nd year FO could easily clear over $300K. When pay rates were pointed out, they said that you just have to know how to use the contract. We haven't changed contracts, so why was it so good before, but now it is and has been and inferior contract.

Now for some of your exaggerations. First, not every trip can be extended by 84 hours. In fact, only trips scheduled to international parameters can be extended by that much. Domestic trips can be extended by 36 hours. FedEx can't make you work to FAR limits. Even during an operational emergency, you can still say enough. Every reserve day at FedEx isn't a 1.5 hour call out. The A plan isn't a 17% income replacement ratio unless you are choosing to work a lot of extra. For it to be a 17% income replacement ratio, you would have to be making over $764K a year while our highest pay rate is $335.56. The list goes on, such as your prediction in 2016 that FedEx would be moving to a much shorter bid in order to avoid paying the pennies they would be required to pay by training a new hire before a current line pilot when compared to the passover pay we had before.

Our contract needs improvement. The question is, are we willing to fight for it. Are you going to chase dollars, or quality of life? It seems to me, most have chosen dollars.

You are right that over half our pilot force wasn’t here in 2015. Let’s hope we don’t make the same mistake our predecessors did. Sadly I agree with you that most have chosen dollars over QOL life though and that is even more evident by our “focused negotiations”. How’s that going for us?

There are a few exaggerations in KC’s post but not by much.

Yes, we have R24 lines (24hr callout) but we all know those aren’t being used as originally intended. Check any schedule for someone with R24 and you’ll wanna throw up all over yourself. Hotel standby (1.5hr call out) is the norm. If not, the chances are you’ll get assigned a trip fairly far out. Then nothing on day two and another trip on day 3. So you can’t really commute home so you end up at a hotel/Crashpad just as if you had been on short call. Too many single day trips are assigned to R24 pilots and it makes the lines unbearable. I avoid them at all costs. They are not the good deal that they sound.

I also don’t get the 17% income replacement ratio, but I welcome KC to show his math. There is no doubt that the pension is dying though. As it is not inflation protected the worth of the pension today, is NOT what it will be in 10, 20, or 40 years from now.

As to the FAR limit thing, a huge problem is that not enough pilots call in “fatigued” when they really should. You can see a train wreck coming and try to tell CRS “this isn’t gonna work”. They don’t care. They will force you into a fatigue call and then your actions are scrutinized to see if you’ll get paid or not.

I have called in fatigued and I can tell you the very first question that was asked was “when will you be ready to go?” I have no idea! In the meantime as I’m trying to sleep and recover they revise the schedule to be even worse than it was before. We had to complain multiple times until an acceptable solution was found.

The international extension time is why I personally avoid international trips. My spouse counts on me being home when I say I’ll be home. I can’t take the risk that I need to bid around an event by three days just because my trip is international.

I’ll add another head scratcher for me. Is it not true that at other airlines your trip can pass through base and you’re still on the same trip? That’s not the case here. If you touch base the trip is over.

If you have all hub turns (day or night) through your base those are all individual trips. Your pay (and per diem) stop while you are in base. Doing PM hub turns through MEM? That could be up to a 6 hr sit where you aren’t getting paid, no per diem, the “cafeteria” is a joke, and your catering parameters were based on each individual trip so you also don’t get catering. If you flew the exact same trip but turned through IND instead of MEM you would continue to get paid, get per diem, AND get catering. If you want to eat that catering or not is a whole different story.

Ok, now for one thing I do like…kinda. Deadheads and the ability to deviate potentially cutting time off your trip. We also keep all the airline miles so it can mean you get status. Deviating doesn’t come without risks though. If you deviate on the front end you have ZERO protections if something goes sideways. So plan accordingly. Also it often appears that the company goes hunting for flights where the accepted fare is completely unrealistic. That means if you don’t have the deviation bank you may not be able to get there from where you are. There are also a bunch of rules of HOW you can use the bank, which make no sense as to why the company would care, that can really limit you. Finally with the bank, as it stands the funds are no going away but that is under the COVID MOU and could go away at any time unless our new contract solidifies that the current procedures stay.

Probation is a whole different animal here. They company can and will fire you. While I wouldn’t call it fear it does seem like probationary pilots have to tread very very lightly here. I don’t get the impression it’s quite as harsh at the Legacy’s.

I know personally I came here over a Legacy because of how much FedEx had been talked up. That and what I was told about it being commuter friendly. I’ve found that what I was sold is also a “bunch of half truths”.

I didn’t know if I was ready to move to a Legacy base. Sure you can commute to them but it seemed to me that the commuters I knew at other airlines had it much rougher. I do still believe that FedEx is the best option if you’re going to commute. I’d say you should think really hard about it though because in reality FedEx is great if you are a commuter AND live near a large airline hub where you can get cheap, direct flights for your deadheads. Otherwise, a two leg deviation is still a two leg trip. See my thoughts on front end deadheads above.


You can do all the research you want but the simple reality is there is no way you can understand all the ins and outs before deciding. We do have a fair number of pilots who came over from Legacy’s so I’d love to hear what it was they disliked so much over there that made them switch over.

The knock on too many military folks isn’t an anti-military thing. It’s more that you don’t know what you don’t know. The majority of our pilots don’t know our own contract so how can they possibly know others and demand that we have similar items? They see it as life is better than it had been working for Uncle Sam and that’s as far as it goes.

I did.

I don't engage in historical revisionism, though.....