Contract Facts
 

ALPA has proven that a “Focused priorities” approach to negotiations leads to a failed result. To attempt to use ALPA resources to negotiate on behalf of one specific group is not a strategy that will ever lead to a ratifiable agreement. The time is now to address the realities facing this pilot group, create a plan, and move towards the future. The past is the past and the future can only be directed by the present.

Facts about the 2015 Contract and TA 1.0 2023:

CBA 2015

1. Industry leading vacation if your seniority allows you to hold a line or reserve line. (CBA 2015 limited ability to enjoy industry leading vacation due to massive decrease in reserve lines and massive increase in PBS awarded schedules.)

2. Industry leading language for trip removal or revision with pay for trips when awarded trip is needed to facilitate FAA mandated training.

3.Industry worst reserve rules. Overwhelming majority of reserve pilots must be able to report within 90 minutes of trip notification.

4. Industry worst system bidding (Filling of Crew Positions) to include most restrictions to exercise seniority in the industry. This industry worst section has trickle down effects that lessen the value of nearly every other section of the CBA.

5. Industry worst Hours of Service to include duty days extendable to FAR maximums due to operational emergency.

6. Industry worst Scope language.

7. Industry worst pay rates.

8. Industry worst compensation for Instructors/Line Check Airman.

9. Industry best deadheading flexibility (mutually beneficial to Company and individual pilot.)

10. Industry worst hotels.

11. Demographic debatable retirement language.

—

TA 23 1.0

1. No change to vacation language.

2. Concessions to current book language.

3. Further concessions to already industry worst language.

4. No change to current industry worst language.

5. No change to current book language.

6. Further concessions to already industry worst language.

7. Industry lagging pay rates/compensation.

8. No change to current industry worst language.

9. Failed effort to incorporate Covid Travel Measures MOU into permanent contract language.

10. No change to current industry worst language.

11. Continued debate on retirement benefit based on demographics.

industry worst: culture

But FedEx is different!

I find the worst of it on these boards. Generally fly with good dudes/dudettes

Completely agree, I fly with great guys all the time. Our line guys and gals, instructors, all great to share the cockpit with.

More like, trending towards industry worst corporate culture (now tied with UPS/Atlas).

Excellent CBA summary, UnusualAttitude

the people you fly with aren’t the only part of a culture. it’s much, much deeper than that.

The main driver of the culture clash at Atlas is now your CFO. The culture is hopefully healing at Atlas. Unfortunately, JD will infect yours.

UPS mitigates a lousy corporate culture with a seemingly strong and unified pilot group.

We have <checks notes> the 'Freedom Fighters', and the '(not so) Silent (not a) Majority'. Arguing relentlessly on social media about who holds the moral high ground for their latest bush-league antics, while management laughs and lights cigars with the million dollar bills they are saving due to our hubris and discord.

Since we are talking contract facts, let's look at the history.

Compensation: In 1999, our top rate was $184 while Delta's was $250. In 2004, our top rate was $206 while Delta's was $319. We went from Delta being paid 30+% more to them being paid 50+% more, yet people like to say we had industry leading pay. Our top rate didn't pass that $250 mark until 2008 for our A380 rate that we never got.

Reserve: 90 minute call out. Saying that an overwhelming majority of our pilots must be able to report withing 90 minutes is true, but not necissarily what happens in reality. This is also a product of only having two recoveries and all of our trips ending when we hit our base. Can that change, sure. How and what are the follow on concequences? Can you imaging how the company could abuse pairings that are allowed to be built to transit a pilots base? What about revisions that allow the company to sweep a pilot through their base?

System bidding: Yeah, it sucks. It didn't poll in the top four in items to be fixed. Have you looked at Uniteds' new contract? If they bid to a seat, and a new bid comes out and they could hold a better seat, yet haven't trained for the previos seat, they can't bid. If you are stuck in a seat, and a junior pilot got hired into the seat you want, how do you suggest fixing it? A bump and flush bid? Wouldn't that be sticking it to the junior guys, or does that only apply if you aren't the junior guy?

Hotels: Well, I guess I will tell that Delta and United crew that are staying at this same hotel that they are staying at an industry worst place.

It is easy to point out problems, it finding the solutions that don't have negative effects worse than the original problem that becomes tricky.

While some might not agree with the focused approach, it is what the majority wanted.

So, what isn't the MEC telling us about being released? Have they mentioned that a PEB could say that the rejected TA was the highest per pilot contract? Have they said that the PEB could make recommendations for a new contract? Have they mentioned that Congress could force the rejected TA on us or a recommended TA from the PEB? This isn't meant to try to scare anyone, it is only mentioning the possibilties that haven't been brought up. If we are so important to the US and world economy, shouldn't these items be a concern?

Both are your facts, so you even admitted that we had better pay then Delta.

Is your point, we shouldn’t have Delta pay rates?

"System bidding: Yeah, it sucks. It didn't poll in the top four in items to be fixed. Have you looked at Uniteds' new contract? If they bid to a seat, and a new bid comes out and they could hold a better seat, yet haven't trained for the previos seat, they can't bid. If you are stuck in a seat, and a junior pilot got hired into the seat you want, how do you suggest fixing it? A bump and flush bid? Wouldn't that be sticking it to the junior guys, or does that only apply if you aren't the junior guy?"

I would guess so. What good is seniority if you are going to just hire newbiew into senior seats? Pretty ridiculous when you finally get an award for your 1st choice after years of waiting for said bid and then have to wait another couple of years for your training slot. PSA probably does better than FX, lol.

Absolutely.

We would like to be as unified as your group, and these times, they seem to be unifying us. Probably as unified as when the opti(sodo)mizer was let loose on the pairings many years ago.

We have a lot in common with UPS.

UPS has NURPS and we have the Silent Majority.

I have never stated that we never had rates higher than Delta, just that we haven't always been the highest. Since 1999 until now, we have had the highest rate for less than 10 of those 26 years. My point isn't that we shouldn't have Delta pay rates. Many people have come here for other reasons than just pay rates, and the numbers support that. Most of our seniority list was hired while we didn't have the highest rates.

Even you had reasons other than pay to come here.

Why did TA1 fail? Your arguments point towards the majority supporting it. You even have "the numbers support"ing your claims/opinions. Are the numbers public information? Are you possibly misinterpreting the information or using faulty data/reasoning?

there is no reasoning with this dude. he loves to argue on behalf of the company and is more often than not proven wrong, and when he is he backtracks and sidetracks and/or ignores valid arguments and points. Hearing from those who have flown with Justin HA——- they all say he’s a terrible pilot with a giant ego. IDK what happened to my ignore list, but he somehow got off of it. back on he goes.

That benefit is only made possible by higher pay rates. I’m not a draft *****.

JustinOpinions,
Ounce again you are wrong. Majority (over half) were hired after 2012. Which means we were the highest pay rate as you already admitted. Those post 9/11 hires didn’t have options for employment because of 9/11 & age 65/Great Recession.

Anthrax,
Thanks for the heads up, I know his MO.

Where did I say you were a draft *****? I simply quoted you saying that vacation was a BIG reason you came to Fedex. Any other implication is on you! And how is our vacation a benefit only made possible by higher pay rates?

All of block 1 and 2 were hired before 9/11, when our contract had rates lower than Delta. In January 2014, Delta had rates higher than ours. In November 2015, our rates went a little higher than theirs until January 2016, two months later. So, since a little more than half our crew force has been hired since Januray 2015, and for all but two months of that time, Delta had higher rates, the majority of our crew force was hired when we didn't have the highest rates. Unless, of course, you are suggesting that we hired as many pilots in those two months as we have in both blocks 1 and 2 combined. Notice that I am excluding those pilots hired after 9/11, even though Delta still had higher rates than us all the way until mid 2004.

Our vacation is good, but that’s zero reason to work for substandard pay. Neither is what happened 15 years ago. Regionals use to pay pennies now first year pay is $90/hr.

We fly bigger airplanes into smaller airports during worse hours with more DG on board making the company more revenue than our PAX counterparts. Zero reasons to work for less money. Know your worth!

The longer you argue for less pay means the closer you get to retiring with $130K pension. End of discussion. The majority has already voted down sub standard pay.

Again, where have I stated that we should accept sub-standard pay rates? I have said in other threads that we should get industry leading pay. I have said that pay rates aren't the only thing people consider. You even said in the end of year salary thread that I quoted that vacation was a BIG reason that you came here. In that year, Delta's top rate was about $40/hour more than ours. You even said that pay is different here in that posting.

This isn't my last contract here. If I am stuck with a $130K pension, my guess is everyone on property will get that or less.

Stop grasping at straws trying to validate that you are correct. Also stop proving you’re an egomaniac. QOL is important and higher pay offers much more QOL in any area of the contract. For you to double down on the EOY survey post is just contextually false and but you just can’t bring yourself to admit you are wrong and post something positive about what the majority actually wants. Open your aperture to see how connected pay is to everything for pilots at any airline. Are you a management pilot?

Come stay at UPS Hotels. I mean Motels. Not even Spirit or Frontier stay at these 2 star motels.

Ok dude, you obviously aren't listening to what I am saying, so keep hearing what you want to hear.

This is your post, what did I get contextually false?

you guys still at the Ayers in ONT? Nice people, substandard transport and property.

Yes, Total dump but good location. Like 80% of our domestic hotels. Crap. And 40% of our Intl. Hotels. Your accomadtions are light years nicer. SYD, KIX, CGN, MAD, etc.

Sounds terrible, it's just not right resting in dumps especially when your schedules are rather grueling at times. Definitely hope it gets better for you and any others at these low cost accommodations.

We aren’t there anymore. They switched to a Marriott this year.

Courtyard* Marriott. Big difference. Same general location, though. Same very basic, very barely hotel.

The "FP" crowd probably stays at nicer hotels than Purple Pilots too.

The list of pilot groups that don’t stay at nicer hotels than Purple Pilots is very short indeed.

No, we moved to a low tier marriott property recently.