|
If I may share a story, take what you may out of it, bourbon helps. My history, 25 years of ATC, now retired. While working at LAS, the twr (where I was) and the tracon always fought, ALWAYS!!! We did not get along. In 2006, the FAA White Book was imposed (google it, not a happy period in time), ****ed off all controllers, as we were forced to do 6 ten hour shifts, but yet we, as controllers, were still at each others throats -vs- focusing in on management, which was the real issue. One day, after a mid, a tracon guy was getting ready to go home and mgt said he was being held over for two more hours. He stated he was extremely tired, and mgt said "we do not care, you are AIS" (a$$ in seat). With about 30 minutes to go into his shift, we are changing the boat around from a 1/7 config to 19/25. A SKW E120 is the last departure off 1, with a right turn to 070, no transponder. SWA is descending on a left downwind for 19. SKW is told to reset, and fly heading 190. The controller is busy coordinating with ZLA, getting everything set. He forgets about SKW. The E120 and 737 pass same alt, about 150 feet apart. The controller, a very good controller, is torn by his mistake. Mgt pulls him off posn, and does their normal BS, until they release him around 1pm. He feels like crap, but mgt does not care, it is a numbers game. Later in the day his wife (another tracon controller at LAS) comes home to find a note at the door, saying do not go into the bedroom, call 911. He took his own life, as he felt that bad nearly killing 130 plus people. Mgt did not care. That tragic event brought all of us together, the fighting was gone, it was all of us -vs- mgt, nothing else. Delays went through the roof, as we were no longer launching 6,000 feet and airborne. The tracon, vis approaches were gone, a min of three in trail, if not more. We got more done being one, and that made a difference. Yes, there were those that controllers we would still did not do things with after work, but in that FAA door, we were one. Maybe this release is what you need, maybe not, but from what I read on APC, SM, and JF's, there is a lot of fighting within, and that gets you no where.
|
Originally Posted by Feef
(Post 3924358)
If I may share a story, take what you may out of it, bourbon helps. My history, 25 years of ATC, now retired. While working at LAS, the twr (where I was) and the tracon always fought, ALWAYS!!! We did not get along. In 2006, the FAA White Book was imposed (google it, not a happy period in time), ****ed off all controllers, as we were forced to do 6 ten hour shifts, but yet we, as controllers, were still at each others throats -vs- focusing in on management, which was the real issue. One day, after a mid, a tracon guy was getting ready to go home and mgt said he was being held over for two more hours. He stated he was extremely tired, and mgt said "we do not care, you are AIS" (a$$ in seat). With about 30 minutes to go into his shift, we are changing the boat around from a 1/7 config to 19/25. A SKW E120 is the last departure off 1, with a right turn to 070, no transponder. SWA is descending on a left downwind for 19. SKW is told to reset, and fly heading 190. The controller is busy coordinating with ZLA, getting everything set. He forgets about SKW. The E120 and 737 pass same alt, about 150 feet apart. The controller, a very good controller, is torn by his mistake. Mgt pulls him off posn, and does their normal BS, until they release him around 1pm. He feels like crap, but mgt does not care, it is a numbers game. Later in the day his wife (another tracon controller at LAS) comes home to find a note at the door, saying do not go into the bedroom, call 911. He took his own life, as he felt that bad nearly killing 130 plus people. Mgt did not care. That tragic event brought all of us together, the fighting was gone, it was all of us -vs- mgt, nothing else. Delays went through the roof, as we were no longer launching 6,000 feet and airborne. The tracon, vis approaches were gone, a min of three in trail, if not more. We got more done being one, and that made a difference. Yes, there were those that controllers we would still did not do things with after work, but in that FAA door, we were one. Maybe this release is what you need, maybe not, but from what I read on APC, SM, and JF's, there is a lot of fighting within, and that gets you no where.
|
Originally Posted by Feef
(Post 3924358)
If I may share a story, take what you may out of it, bourbon helps. My history, 25 years of ATC, now retired. While working at LAS, the twr (where I was) and the tracon always fought, ALWAYS!!! We did not get along. In 2006, the FAA White Book was imposed (google it, not a happy period in time), ****ed off all controllers, as we were forced to do 6 ten hour shifts, but yet we, as controllers, were still at each others throats -vs- focusing in on management, which was the real issue. One day, after a mid, a tracon guy was getting ready to go home and mgt said he was being held over for two more hours. He stated he was extremely tired, and mgt said "we do not care, you are AIS" (a$$ in seat). With about 30 minutes to go into his shift, we are changing the boat around from a 1/7 config to 19/25. A SKW E120 is the last departure off 1, with a right turn to 070, no transponder. SWA is descending on a left downwind for 19. SKW is told to reset, and fly heading 190. The controller is busy coordinating with ZLA, getting everything set. He forgets about SKW. The E120 and 737 pass same alt, about 150 feet apart. The controller, a very good controller, is torn by his mistake. Mgt pulls him off posn, and does their normal BS, until they release him around 1pm. He feels like crap, but mgt does not care, it is a numbers game. Later in the day his wife (another tracon controller at LAS) comes home to find a note at the door, saying do not go into the bedroom, call 911. He took his own life, as he felt that bad nearly killing 130 plus people. Mgt did not care. That tragic event brought all of us together, the fighting was gone, it was all of us -vs- mgt, nothing else. Delays went through the roof, as we were no longer launching 6,000 feet and airborne. The tracon, vis approaches were gone, a min of three in trail, if not more. We got more done being one, and that made a difference. Yes, there were those that controllers we would still did not do things with after work, but in that FAA door, we were one. Maybe this release is what you need, maybe not, but from what I read on APC, SM, and JF's, there is a lot of fighting within, and that gets you no where.
|
Originally Posted by Feef
(Post 3924358)
If I may share a story, take what you may out of it, bourbon helps. My history, 25 years of ATC, now retired. While working at LAS, the twr (where I was) and the tracon always fought, ALWAYS!!! We did not get along. In 2006, the FAA White Book was imposed (google it, not a happy period in time), ****ed off all controllers, as we were forced to do 6 ten hour shifts, but yet we, as controllers, were still at each others throats -vs- focusing in on management, which was the real issue. One day, after a mid, a tracon guy was getting ready to go home and mgt said he was being held over for two more hours. He stated he was extremely tired, and mgt said "we do not care, you are AIS" (a$$ in seat). With about 30 minutes to go into his shift, we are changing the boat around from a 1/7 config to 19/25. A SKW E120 is the last departure off 1, with a right turn to 070, no transponder. SWA is descending on a left downwind for 19. SKW is told to reset, and fly heading 190. The controller is busy coordinating with ZLA, getting everything set. He forgets about SKW. The E120 and 737 pass same alt, about 150 feet apart. The controller, a very good controller, is torn by his mistake. Mgt pulls him off posn, and does their normal BS, until they release him around 1pm. He feels like crap, but mgt does not care, it is a numbers game. Later in the day his wife (another tracon controller at LAS) comes home to find a note at the door, saying do not go into the bedroom, call 911. He took his own life, as he felt that bad nearly killing 130 plus people. Mgt did not care. That tragic event brought all of us together, the fighting was gone, it was all of us -vs- mgt, nothing else. Delays went through the roof, as we were no longer launching 6,000 feet and airborne. The tracon, vis approaches were gone, a min of three in trail, if not more. We got more done being one, and that made a difference. Yes, there were those that controllers we would still did not do things with after work, but in that FAA door, we were one. Maybe this release is what you need, maybe not, but from what I read on APC, SM, and JF's, there is a lot of fighting within, and that gets you no where.
Sadly, as has been mentioned in this thread, the founder of the SM group as well as a handful of their members have proven to be company sympathizers and members of management. The large document drop a couple years ago proved that. I am now going be viciously attacked by the same names that do the usual attacking when mentioning the letters “S-M”. |
Originally Posted by TsimShaTsui
(Post 3924401)
I appreciate the sentiment and rally cry. As well as your experience and time as a controller. You guys and gals do a phenomenal job and it’s unfortunate to hear that story. Sadly I know there is a lot of that in the ATC world currently
Sadly, as has been mentioned in this thread, the founder of the SM group as well as a handful of their members have proven to be company sympathizers and members of management. The large document drop a couple years ago proved that. I am now going be viciously attacked by the same names that do the usual attacking when mentioning the letters “S-M”. ALL IN, fbh |
Originally Posted by Feef
(Post 3924358)
If I may share a story, take what you may out of it, bourbon helps. My history, 25 years of ATC, now retired. While working at LAS, the twr (where I was) u no where.
|
Originally Posted by frozenboxhauler
(Post 3924417)
You'll be fine, TST. I'm sure no one's gonna bother you,...but I did make page 34 of the "manifesto" you're referring to.
ALL IN, fbh |
Originally Posted by FeverDream
(Post 3924196)
Posts that continue to divide and conquer. It's all about putting one group against the other group. And blaming "those guys." It's time the blame gets put exactly where it belongs: FedEx management. Once everyone starts focusing on that, we'll get an agreement. Right now, management (wrongly, I hope) thinks they'll be able to fracture the group enough to limp a substandard agreement with zero dollars added from TA1 across the finish line. Perhaps they are encouraged by the readily available ability to sow discord among the crew force with leaked "bad news" from the NMB, or evidence of "company good faith bargaining" in a PFC letter asking for "reasonableness." Perhaps they'll even float the ridiculous idea of recalling MEC members in the middle of this fight to the same willing dividers that spread the preliminary bad news.
If you're senior: If you're junior: y k. |
Originally Posted by Stan446
(Post 3924490)
And who is whom? Your statement divides. Everyone above you is senior and everyone below you is junior. Its all perspective. Enough with calling out anyone who doesn't fit your idea of what you want, 900 Mill give back by the union and that went nowhere, Now its on the "junior" guys to get what? Another year, lost wages., but yep, you know better. When the next TA, minus a pension bump, small DB contribution, marginal pay rate bump, and its less than TA 1, fall on your sword.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/d...illions-2.html |
Originally Posted by ShankSinatra
(Post 3924507)
Interesting read, and perhaps even germane to this discussion.. or the thread title, at least.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/d...illions-2.html That’s a very good and interesting read!! |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:44 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands