My take on the tone of the latest communications is that we will see a TA very soon and I don't think our reps have a taste for concessions. Reading between the lines I got a feel that the two sides have begun to see eye to eye on most issues. That aside I've also heard a few well-informed rumors while sitting behind closed doors that the numbers will look satisfactory to most and the whole package is a step forward for the pilot group. I don't think management is as foolish as some think...they recognize the crossroads we are standing in front of and my gut is that they will choose the road less haggled. I appreciate the grit of this form...it is nice to see the passion and conviction in our group and know that they are ready to step up if the company doesn't recognize the momentum that our pilot group has gathered.

' I don't think management is as foolish as some think"
But dont under estimate their greed to them we are a cost center period not people not pilots.

Perhaps but they do think we are foolish. We are divided. Weak
Some of us are greedy so they can get by.

The have better lawyers and IT Penelope angling to make it look good with loop holes like pbs and 4a2b.

PS: the red letter, we have never one one arbitration. the LOA's stank ant they totally srwd us on 380 pay for 777 and 757's

They are not foolish they are better at the game. They are good at stalling. They do have a weakness and its their back hand (like tennis) we have to hit the ball back so they cant forehand smash us.

Skeebo2,

Your ideas may be valid, but your presentation stinks. How long does it take to read what you wrote, and correct spelling, punctuation, and grammatical errors prior to hitting that "Post Quick Reply" button? Sorry, I don't want to be the spelling police, but your post needs help.

It must be 5 o'clock somewhere.

Not even close to the Spelling Police, JJ. When one can't even understand what was written without rereading it 3 times, it's a problem.

Skeebo, some of the brothers will always be hating your Compton sound. :)

+1 One of the best things I have read on here. Wish there was more that felt this way...

I think our NC has a good handle on what we consider the "No-go" items.

The company has to bring the $$ to the table for anything to get to us for a vote.

And the "pilot bashing" is already going on. Flew with a guy who lives across the street from a GOC guy. He hires the GOC guy's kid to mow his lawn. Last week as he was paying him, the kid said "I hope you guys don't get a pay raise".

Excuse me? The kid then said that if the pilots got a pay raise, then his dad (a GOC guy) would get a pay cut in order to pay for the pilots.

Classic negotiating tactics. They want to cut the GOC guy's pay, but can't justify it. Bingo - the pilots get paid more, so you get a pay cut. Pathetic.

Tell the kid his dad should have checked the box that said pilot not GOC guy on his Fedex application.

tell the kid to tell his Dad you want 5000 lbs more gas in the mower

It all makes sense now. A couple of weeks ago I was flying to ANC and requested an extra 2K Lbs of fuel. I called the dispatcher to let him know and for the first time in the 10 years I've been a Capt, he started arguing with me about wether I needed it or not. He went on about the weather, etc and I told him I was putting on the extra 2k lbs. This phone call happened 1:15 before push. 5 mins before push still no fuel. So I acars'ed him and ask where my fuel was, he didn't respond but the fuel truck arrived. We took a 30 min delay because of this. Interestingly enough, we burned all the extra fuel and then some, a thunderstorm parked itself on final in ANC and we broke out around 400 ft. So much for your forcast dude!!

I've had that happen (dispatcher arguing against any more fuel) a couple of times over the past two months. Has something changed and is driving them towards doing this?

Have your bud tell that kid that without a substantial pay raise, he won't be able to afford paying someone to cut his grass. Then fire the moron and hire the kid from down the block. If asked, tell the kid that the other kids' price was lower. Let him learn some basic economics, although it is Memphis, so expectations of learning are minimal.

First laugh of the day! Thank you, Nohaz. :D

I highly doubt the company will cut anyone's pay, regardless of what's in our (eventual) new contract. I wonder who's spreading this bull crap. Could it be that someone trying to poison our working relationship with other employee groups, especially ones we work closely with (like GOC), thinking it will somehow lessen our resolve and make us lower our goals?

I hope you set the kid straight and assured him that any raise we get will have absolutely no effect on his dad's pay.

He didn't check that box, therein ceases his argument. If he wanted our lifestyle and pay, he should've become a pilot. Then he could've checked that box. I'm not going to feel guilty for what I do, make, or enjoy. We all fought hard to get here.


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"2".

R.O.R.


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Tell the kid to tell his dad to get off his ass and organize a union.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM

to jet jock and mexc

I had a post not long ago forgot 6 9 tenthousand reads numerous replies. Seems they all get it but you cant so Ill try a diffewrent language

I grew up on the roman side of town were latin was spoken engich is my second language

But when it comes to mgmt baloney im a a roman warrior and wount eat a ship sand wich or mind your ship bird posts

U use agrgumentum ad nausium as a gramma nasi u dis me with the ad hominim and you go on ad infiniteum ergo make a point or quit drinking hateraid.

This is just the beginning. The company will start more scare rumors to get all employees ****ed at the greedy pilots, loss of jobs, pay cuts, cut in benefits, tarnished company image, loss of shipping contracts, the compition will take market share, these are just the ones I remember. The rumors will rise in direct proportion to the money being talked about at the table.

I don't think we're close to a ta. This is another strategy they've used in the past, make us think we're close then play the union is being unreasonable.

Divide the employes then dived the pilots. Same formula, different contract.

ASAP Report. Just a brief narrative - especially make sure to put the final burn. We did this the other night and used every drop of 3000 added on a domestic narrowbody flight. FAA reads the ASAP reports. We need to share this info where we can in the interest of flight safety.

Pipe

I bet GOC would have loved for 40 or so captains to have said they were going to add 3000 lbs. of fuel on a specific night not too long ago. :)

Best answer I've ever heard about fuel disputes is...OK, sounds like you're taking me off the flight, which hotel am I going to...but, but, but

Well, we both have to agree and I think we need an extra 3k and you don't. Since we can't come to an agreement, I'm assuming you intend to replace me with someone who might acquiesce to your plan

I have never had a distpatcher question me adding fuel and I add on probably 1/4 of my flights. I will however not take any stored flight plan routes right up a frontal line anymore. I make them do their job and flight plan according to the weather.

It doesn't matter what anybody thinks about my gas. I want gas, I get gas, I don't get gas, I go home. Period. In all fairness, nobody's ever questioned me. There has been a time or two I actually felt Goc was relieved whenI put gas on.

Major thread creep going on here.

What days are they meeting this week?

There was a big meeting today. Didn't attend due to other obligations. Was a "social" last light at a sports bar in Hacks Cross. Very good attendance (free food + pilots = good attendance :D ). Well attended by the MEC and good info, if you could find time to put down the wings.
While rumors suggest good things, don't take your eye off the ball. Several sources suggest we are having very good affect on getting attention from the parts of the organization that can make things happen. Stay tuned, but don't pop the sparkly yet.

Today's meeting was well attended too. Guarded optimism from the MEC that things are finally progressing. Hopefully the progress will continue during negotiations starting tomorrow. But there were good words of caution about the need for the pilot group to stay professional and avoid unnecessary conflict. Based on current manning problems, we have very little to gain and a lot to lose by people saying or doing stupid things while negotiations continue. Sometimes the best offense is not being offensive. This is probably one of those times.

Rock, I agree with you, but only to a point, because sometimes the best offense is being offensive. Ask yourself how the "not being offensive" strategy has worked, or not, in the recent past relative to FedEx negotiations.

Being "offensive" is the negotiating committee's responsibility not the individual pilots. Being "offensive" as an individual can get you time off without pay!

One of the main points made by the ALPA lawyer yesterday was to watch what you post on social media so as no to become a hostage.

He also made it quite clear that catchy names and cute avitars on APC do not hide your identity.

Good, I hope they're paying attention to social media and realize we're ****ed off and tired of the foot dragging.

I'm not clear how you got that implication from my post. Of course the first TA should be one that would receive overwhelming approval. And that first TA should have been concluded long ago. I'm pointing to one possible game plan that would see "due process" drag our current negotiations unfinished until after peak.

I wasn't here for the Red Letter Days, 1998 deals, etc, as I was a postal wave guy. I have never seen such frustration, angst, and "...don't give a $hit..." since I've been here. That gives me mixed emotions.

On the good side--it makes me think we will get a deal. I like that.

On the bad side--how much damage has to occur to a company before they fix things? I had SLF cancelled for a plane strike--on a brand new 767. I saw the picture of the MD11 on its tail. YGTBFSM. I thought we figured out how to prevent that in 1995. How many diverts, service failures, and bad will are we going to generate to save a nickel here and there? I want a contract. I want a good one. I also want a retirement one day and to work for the best company in the world in overnight delivery and world-wide logistics. A dozen years ago I was confident about my future. Today? Well....I think I can make retirement. Do I want my daughter to one day work here? I don't know.

To the management lurkers: Contract blah blah blah contract. You know what you need to do. Do it. What I ask is when this storm is over--invest some skin in the game and fix this ship. You have over 4000 of the most loyal, kool aid drinking team players you could ever want. Treat your line mx and ramps folks with respect, and give them the resources they need. Develop the spine to worry more about doing the job with your eye on the 5 and 10 year vision and not just the quarterly or annual fiscal targets. Nobody wants to sign up to fly for a second rate outfit. Your employees want to work for the best in the business. Take care of business. You had a chance to work behind the scenes and get a fair contract 2 years ago, and you blew it. I put personal credibility and skin in the game saying I thought it was good idea, and I got burned. I am beyond that. But you need to fix this company. Buy some sims. Don't just give safety lip service, but let's decide we will never have another major mishap at FedEx and provide the training to make sure we make good on that pledge. Put some ramp supervisors on the line. Plane strikes and rampers getting killed on the ramp are symptoms of a greater problem. Invest in your people. Shareholders want you to succeed, but so do the people who make all of this possible...both in and out of the cockpit. I am going to be fine....I'll retire out of here in 5, 10, or 15 years and be okay. But we've got sons and daughters who grew up admiring FedEx, and now want to be part of the next generation of Purple. Your actions over the next few months will be a big part of whether we encourage them to come here or if we tell them our best days are over. Personally, I hope we have a lot of good days ahead of us...but the ball is in your court.

Agreed. I wasn't talking about the pilots as individuals, but about the NC and the FX ALPA elected representatives.

Perfect. +1. 'nuff said

I second that emotion. This is probably one of the, if not the best posts I have seen here on APC. I was here for the Red Letter days, the Yellow list, and when Federal Express was simply an amazing place to work. It used to be a passion. Now it's just a job. And what is incredible, is that it would take very little effort on the part of management, to make it an amazing place again. It's simply matter of doing the right thing.
I can't express in words, how much I miss flying for the old Federal Express Corporation.