The Walrus

What about block 6 and HKG.

Rothladoad

Look I'm no genius at any of this sh"t not sure about block 6 but I can only assume FDA isn't what is needed still. Off subject a little. Air China Cargo throws 6K a month at their guys for Shanghai living expenses alone.

Rothladoad

Won't say who but senior training pilot type ex chief pilot wants only Pros? Hmm that sounds bad IMHO

Commando

9-5 Vote? That's not a good sign.

This indicates a Weak Contract from the NC. Which will pass 60%-40%. Next TA won't be until 2023 or later. Think about that.

TonyC

The vote was in open session, and recorded, so it's far from secret. I'm told the Anchorage Rep was a bit confused about what exactly was being voted on and would have voted No had he understood. That would have made it 8 to 6. Understand, the vote was not to approve a TA, or send it to the membership for ratification. The vote was to have the Negotiating Committee convert the concepts they had achieved into actual CBA language that could be reviewed and then approved or disapproved as a TA.

Despite the fact that the MEC Chairman has informed the media we have a TA, that decision is up to the MEC, and it will be made next Wednesday. Then it will be up to them to decide how to use their vote. Will they approve of the deal only if they feel it's worthy of their full support and membership ratification? Will they "approve" of the process to send it to the membership to decide? The process has already been approved of -- the questions should be about the TA. (Many have done this in the past in an attempt to wipe their hands of the responsibility of tough decisions. "I don't know, even though I have access to more information than the line pilot, so I'll just toss it to them to decide.") Or will they "approve" the TA out of fear of threatened alternatives, which could include a "Pause" from the NMB Mediator? We cannot control what the Mediator decides -- we can only control what WE do, and we shouldn't rush into inferior deals out of fear of possibilities. We've come too far and waited too long to mess this thing up in the last 0.3 miles of the 26.3 mile marathon.

I'm of the opinion that the MEC should not pass to the membership for ratification any deal they cannot wholeheartedly support and defend. Don't become a tool of The Company to test the waters and "see if it will pass" by a slight margin. We deserve better, and we don't need to waste our time and resources playing that game.




Yepp. And LCAs, and SCAs, etc.






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The Walrus

The 9-5 vote was not on the TA. That vote will be next Wednesday. The 9-5 vote was on whether to take the last offer and put into full contract language, or just walk away from the table.

Rothladoad

I agree. I hate jumping to conclusions but I am really [upset] if after all the BS this is the best this [hormonal] group can come up with. I am just stumped. Oh well Air China cargo is hiring 777 CAP. I'm laughing but I don't get management at all.

TonyC

At this point in the process, neither party can just walk away from the table. When the mediator says meet, we meet.

But when the mediator says (and I have no idea if he said this or not, so don't construe it as a version of what has happened), "We'll meet today and tomorrow, and if you haven't hammered out an agreement by then, we'll meet next spring," it can force tough decisions.

If you read the Chairman's Message of August 6, 2015, you might notice a hint about those decisions. (It's the top link on the fdx.alpa.org page.)

Second sentence, highlight mine:

"As negotiations continue—either to a tentative agreement for the MEC to review, or paused by the National Mediation Board—it is important for FDX pilots to maintain discipline and focus."

In this case (and again, I have no inside knowledge, this is just an educated guess), the decision would not be to accept the last offer or walk away, it could be to accept the last offer or wait a long time for the next NMB mediated session.

The MEC Chairman also stated during the last Joint Council Meeting that he felt like as long as we were making progress (and he felt like we were at that time) the NMB mediator would continue to schedule dates to meet. Apparently, we've stopped making progress. We'll know the details soon, but since we were stuck on retirement at that time, my guess is we didn't make much progress on retirement.



Personally, I think there are a lot of things we could legally do during that wait, and enough angry pilots to make the wait uncomfortable for the other party in this process. And still, there's the distinct possibility that such an angry pilot might do something stupid to get himself fired, and that was the crux of the remainder of the above referenced Chairman's Message. That puts another spin on the decision, do we accept this TA, or do we wait for better and in the meantime risk losing pilots to stupid mistakes and then have to pay to get the hostages back?


Whatever the options or considerations, walking away is not one of them.






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The Walrus

That is pretty much what I meant by walk away, just too lazy to type that much.

Full pull

We need to make it cleared to management and membership that if any hostages are taken, no matter how stupid, no agreement until all hostages are returnd.