Please do some research before babbling incorrect info. "Commando"

Says the man who previously posted FDX pilots had never voted down a TA. Maybe you should do some research too.

What TA was turned down?

99.9% of the time I agree with Albie and he is often the voice of reason. I could be convinced that the smart move is to accept this and move on except for one MAJOR problem:

SIX YEARS!!

If it was a four year deal, one could lick their wounds and move on, mentally preparing for the next round. With this deal, it will account for half or more of our career for many of us. It's just not good enough for that (and I'm talking pay/retirement numbers only)

Pipe

Which one?

We voted down an 'ALPA 1" TA and the first "FPA" TA.

But maybe that was before you got into the industry and became an expert :cool:

Once again, it's Christmas morning at fedex, and we're sifting through socks and underwear...do we finally make a stand and send it all back to "Santa" with a note saying, Where's my Coleco Vision??...or do we once again take the socks and underwear, because... well, I do need new socks and underwear.....

No. We'll debate the point when you can tell me how much UPS coughs up per pilot for A Plan, B Plan, vacation, sick leave, and then average pay per pilot. Pay isn't the only thing, I wouldn't fly some of your schedules for twice the pay.

My grandmother used to give me a shoe horn and a lint brush every year for xmas.

Deja vu......

Unless I'm given access to the Payroll Dept. in ATL, no one knows those exact numbers. And one can twist each separate category you referred to.

But Hourly is Black and White. And it's what 90% of Compensation is based off of. Like DL's Green slips for example.

So just looking at your lame COLA raise after four years of talks and for the next 6 years, your Hourly is not close to "the highest compensation in the Airline Industry" for the next 4 years. Like I said earlier, it's already lower than a turned down TA.

And our Schedules do sux. But I'm not on a Domestic Bird doing Hub Turns. I do one leg to the Hotel.

Hourly pay is certainly black and white but it is only about 50% of a pilots compensation package.

Other parts of our compensation are retirement, medical, work rules, etc. The "improvements" to retirement were incredibly small (1% B fund increase, and 1 more in 4 years). Healthcare is going to be significantly worse, but we'll have to see the fine print. Be careful when the Cadillac tax is enacted. I really didn't see any meaningful improvements in work rules. Sure you might get 1.5 credit hours if you get a new disruption (how many times per year do you think you will see these?). I didn't see trip rig and duty rig improvements in the highlights (and those equate to real money).

Now reserves will be supporting our sims which decreases the instructor force. Not sure if the professional instructors are allowed to accomplish more events now or it's just codified (ask a flex, I really don't know). Passover pay has ended.

Six week bid months? Really? Why?

Overall improvements in Deadheads despite a few set backs. It sounds expensive, but what is the real cost to the company? I'm not turning in my hotel for $30 dollars of bank.

I don't have the details of the 40K, one year retirement notice. But why don't we all get that? Sounds like another 25K Veba deal. I also don't want to encourage people to fly sick and the SLAB (or whatever you call it) will do so. I'd rather not have this in our contract.

I'll read the full TA and go to the roadshows (or at least watch the video if I'm flying). But I just don't see any way I can vote "yes". Maybe I am missing a lot.

I can wait a year or two without a new contract rather than settle for something I think is not good enough. And it's for SIX years.

I would also reconsider retirement changes (for the right price). If the MEC sees no chance of increasing the A fund, I would consider looking into changes in retirement. If I was a 35 year old new hire (with up to 30 years of work ahead), what would that 130K pension be worth in 2045? Withering on the vine was possibly the best description I've read. Would a 16% B fund be a better alternative? I have no intention of screwing the new guys, but are we screwing them by keeping them on the A plan? Let the union actuaries take a look and show us the numbers. If we went down this path, possibly have an opt in/out for everyone (those with 25 years, it's an easy decision). Of course make it cash over cap. For those on property and stay, give them 10% and continued A fund. I don't know, just an idea.

Again, I'm not for settling on a B scale. If it's advantageous to new hires, I would certainly consider changing the retirement. Of course, we need to see something in return (hourly rates).