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Originally Posted by FDX1
(Post 1966042)
Some good points worth considering G&F. So what exactly is the history of a pilot group voting down a T/A? Mixed to poor outcomes mostly with Billions lost. American, USAir, AirTran (SWA Merger) to name a few that left Millions of dollars on the table in "good" deals. They never recouped those losses and are just now, in American and USAir, just starting to claw their way back.
To your point of 6 years being too long and regrouping. For a suitable deal. Some say the size of the deal may improve, some say it shrinks, lets assume it's neither. So money gets moved around but the at the end of regrouping we are still looking at a 1.68B dollar deal. Even if it's a four year deal with the same money...well what if it takes another 2 years to get the deal? We could be left looking at the same size deal 2 years from now, for the same money. We end up with the same duration due to the delay, but with less earnings and DC contributions over the same period. WHY? Risk/Reward? I'd rather know the hand I was dealt than guess at one that may be dealt. |
Originally Posted by FDX1
(Post 1966042)
Some good points worth considering G&F. So what exactly is the history of a pilot group voting down a T/A? Mixed to poor outcomes mostly with Billions lost. American, USAir, AirTran (SWA Merger) to name a few that left Millions of dollars on the table in "good" deals. They never recouped those losses and are just now, in American and USAir, just starting to claw their way back.
To your point of 6 years being too long and regrouping. For a suitable deal. Some say the size of the deal may improve, some say it shrinks, lets assume it's neither. So money gets moved around but the at the end of regrouping we are still looking at a 1.68B dollar deal. Even if it's a four year deal with the same money...well what if it takes another 2 years to get the deal? We could be left looking at the same size deal 2 years from now, for the same money. We end up with the same duration due to the delay, but with less earnings and DC contributions over the same period. WHY? Risk/Reward? I'd rather know the hand I was dealt than guess at one that may be dealt. You have a point. But I can see you never play poker. |
Sounds like you would vote for the Iran Deal.
Originally Posted by FDX1
(Post 1966042)
Some good points worth considering G&F. So what exactly is the history of a pilot group voting down a T/A? Mixed to poor outcomes mostly with Billions lost. American, USAir, AirTran (SWA Merger) to name a few that left Millions of dollars on the table in "good" deals. They never recouped those losses and are just now, in American and USAir, just starting to claw their way back.
To your point of 6 years being too long and regrouping. For a suitable deal. Some say the size of the deal may improve, some say it shrinks, lets assume it's neither. So money gets moved around but the at the end of regrouping we are still looking at a 1.68B dollar deal. Even if it's a four year deal with the same money...well what if it takes another 2 years to get the deal? We could be left looking at the same size deal 2 years from now, for the same money. We end up with the same duration due to the delay, but with less earnings and DC contributions over the same period. WHY? Risk/Reward? I'd rather know the hand I was dealt than guess at one that may be dealt. |
Originally Posted by FDX1
(Post 1966042)
We could be left looking at the same size deal 2 years from now, for the same money. We end up with the same duration due to the delay, but with less earnings and DC contributions over the same period.
There needs to be a continued incentive for the physical and psychological strain of night hub turn ops. This is particularly important as we all know how optimized the schedules have become. Simply joining the majors, or being slightly ahead doesn't satisfy that requirement (especially considering how profitable FDX is by comparison). WHY? Risk/Reward? I'd rather know the hand I was dealt than guess at one that may be dealt. The attitude of passing an extremely marginal TA due to some perceived fear of failing to make improvements is short sighted, and only serves to severely weaken our already weak bargaining position. I understand where you are coming from, I hear it on trips from some guys... I will say that I don't believe this is a rational behavior, as most guys supporting this seem ignorant of the TA and simply are tired, ready for it to be over with, and fearful of delaying a marginal improvement; they've run out of gas, as have some of our leadership.
Originally Posted by MaxKts
(Post 1966063)
Too much "fuzzy" language introduced in this TA and the scheduling abuse fixes - we added penalties for their abuse. All we have done is prostituted ourselves out. It won't stop the abuse it will only cost the company a couple extra pesos. They don't care about the little extra it will cost - we have just given them permission to do what they want whenever they want - to me that is a huge QOL issue!
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No Balls!
If you pussies vote for this crap contract I have NO respect for this crew force! Just because ***** Larsen says this is the best we are gonna get you trust FedEx. Are you kidding? Been here to long to see how FedEx likes to screw with us. Please vote NO. Fire the negotiating chairman and move on. MEC too.
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Finally a rational winning argument.
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Rational has nothing to do with it.
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 1968418)
Finally a rational winning argument.
I, for one, don't care if pilots go full blown emotional to get to their NO vote - as long as they get there eventually. Insert rational for "Germans" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84DkwMA9FEs |
I don't know how the vote is going to go, if the yes vote wins half the pilots will ***** and moan and still collect their paycheck because the deal will be done, aint crapola the no votes can do about it. If the no vote wins half the pilots will ***** and moan and still collect their paycheck. The difference is we will need to be more unified with a no vote then a yes vote. Being insulting little panzies is not the way to get unified.
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 1968445)
I don't know how the vote is going to go, if the yes vote wins half the pilots will ***** and moan and still collect their paycheck because the deal will be done, aint crapola the no votes can do about it. If the no vote wins half the pilots will ***** and moan and still collect their paycheck. The difference is we will need to be more unified with a no vote then a yes vote. Being insulting little panzies is not the way to get unified.
Should I end up voting no for this TA, I guarantee you that I will still take my 30K annual raise and 35K bonus, and probably stick some of that into my retirement fund investments. I suspect that the issues I have with this TA are going to stick whether this TA passes, or if we wait for the next one. Whether this deal is exactly what I wanted or not (it's not), I still have to admit that working for FedEx has made me wealthy, and my pride will remain intact whether I get an A fund increase and another couple percent pay raise, or not. |
No argument, I will make my decision and be happy regardless of how the vote turns out. My point is, if we vote no, unity is more important than a yes vote.
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