Draft during Vacation?
 

I've been told the company can't draft you while you're on vacation. I don't know if that is true.

If it is true, do you agree with it?

If it were changed, would you consider it concessionary? How could it be changed if true?

I'm looking for ways pilots could get paid 150% instead of 50% while helping the company with their manning problem. And provide less justification for the push by airlines for another raise in regulated retirement age.

865 pilots gave up 7,513 days of vacation in the last 7 months. I think the company is doing just fine.:mad: Of course, there was another large group of pilots that were lamenting that "they weren't senior enough to get vacation cancellation!!!" :eek: I guess that is called "Unity", in their eyes.

After this POS TA (most of it), why would any pilot "want to help the company"!? :confused:

The company has "spoken" loud and clear about what they think of us and our families. Even most of the Yes voters are not excited about it.

"You reap what you sow".

So much for unity. At half that number it would still be depressing! :mad: :(

So vote no and our unity will have the company on their knees.

Correct. No drafting during any vacation footprint, PERIOD.

So you were told that, but you don't know if it is true.

Why, have you been hoping that you could be drafted over vacation this summer? Could have made a little more money, and helped the company with their manning problem?

Exactly.....

Do you know the answer to the first question?

Your words, not mine in the second part. That's not why I asked the question.

If a logistics company has not given themselves the option of doing the above, then there must be an overarching reason why not. Perhaps the contract doesn't allow it. I haven't researched it yet. Was it the company or the pilots who blocked it or is it even prevented?

Since you had a fairly strong reaction to this as a concept, which of the following do you find most disagreeable?

SLB as currently proposed at 50% buyback, or the ability to be drafted at 150% during a vacation?

Don't feed the troll ... is PolicyWonk even a FDX pilot? Probably not?


:confused:

I know the answers, and I certainly have strong opinions.

However, I asked those questions to illustrate my point that you are not a FedEx pilot, as you wouldn't be asking those questions if you were. I am curious as to why you are researching this.

I have no issue at all with non-FedEx pilots posting on this forum, or even people who are not pilots. However, I believe that people should present themselves honestly, without necessarily revealing their names. I don't think one should present themselves as a FedEx pilot if they are not.

I believe you have gone to way too much effort to just be trolling. So, what's your story? What do you do, and why do you have such an intense interest in certain sections of the TA?

I don't want to discourage anything that starts discussion, however, I would appreciate the answers to my questions.

Extremely unlikely. I am curious, though I doubt I'll get a straight answer.;)

Mayday

This is from a previous post. Who but a FedEx pilot would care to draw attention to a deficit in this TA in the Substitution section?

"An accurate screen is a necessity in understanding the matrix, especially in the longer SUB windows. We can't have language that allows that screen to disappear.

I expected language that would improve SUB, but this is a potential degradation if it is exploited."

So Mayday, which bothers you the most? Codifying working for 50c on the dollar, or 150c on the dollar? Granted the issues I raised aren't the same.

Let's give you a question where the situation is the same. Would you rather have SLB at 50c or SLB at 150c? Probably not at all, but what if those were the only two choices? Not in your personal situation, but philosophically.

Philosophically, I'd rather the company be properly manned

I'd rather not incentivize anyone to work, and work, and work, and work -- until they become fatigued, sick or worse

I'd rather the company didn't expect it

Ugh!! 865/4200=20% that are working for the other team.

Lets just say the TA doesn't pass.

How many of these very same people who sold back vacation will fly draft/volunteer to move the boxes, and possibly at 200%??

"We have met the enemy and he is us" Pogo.

Sorry, but this is exactly why I voted yes.

Champ, I also voted yes because I do not think we have enough pilots that will do what it will take to support a No vote. I was looking at FO's and Capt schedules when trips drop in in open time the last few weeks. 80% had lines 100+ hrs for month after month. How many have turned down draft over the last year while so many just cannot turn it down or are protecting carryover and have 100+hrs too. If the TA does not pass how may yes voters are going to get their pay raise by taking draft trips while the rest of us fly our line and look like fools.
There are a minority here that have supported the negotiating committee, probably why they took the company's offer. They know who the real enemy is and it is us. Full support for them and we would have had the contract that we would have deserved. Instead we got what we deserved!

EVERY FDX pilot knows that you cannot work over your vacation (DRF, VLT, M/U). Nada, nothing, zilch. You are obviously NOT a FDX pilot.

When asked that question, he quoted some technical language about screens and matrixes, therefore proving his FedEx pilot credentials:)

I am curious of who and why someone would post all this stuff. Internet personality? Student doing research on internet forums? Law school student interested in aviation contracts? High school student bored, or working on a subject for college essays? I'm all for having anyone participate on these sites, but I appreciate it when one is honest about their occupation and interest.;)

That's a very specific tally you have there. What's your source?

Yes --- the source would be interesting....???

At least tell us if this is company data....or association data?

I don't think they could offer 200% draft under the current rules - if the TA is voted down we are still in Sec 6 negotiations and the company can not just start changing things!



So, only 20% working against us is enough to throw in the towel?



I personally look at it as the NC has 80% support and I'm all-in with those odds!

Neither. I track it with Excel by taking the vacation list now (Nov. bid period) and comparing it to the vacation list after vacations cancellations are processed; pretty easy to do (takes about 1-hour/month). Of course, the company is the only party that knows exactly how many were "unlucky" (bid for it but didn't get it), but that sure gives them a pulse of the resolve of the crew force; as reflected in the POS TA IMHO. :mad:

Based on the data I track, I am surprised the company even bothered to negotiate with us (it usually went pretty senior in most seats). :( When the company looked past the Negotiating Committee at "us", they must have been very pleased!

Lots of very interesting results.... For instance, when vacations cancellations were solicited in some seats, and no pilots "volunteered", why was not at least one vacation Involuntarily Cancelled? Did the need suddenly disappear? or could it be they were just testing the resolve of the crew force (by saying it was needed in most seats)? Or just setting themselves up for the ability to do Advanced Volunteer?

Of a certainty there are many handles on here who are not pilots. One person in particular posts many times under many callsigns. Of a certainty, he/she will not fly under this TA. Some of the posts in this thread are from that person; ambivalent, cavalier, cajoling. A veritable schoolyard bully.

Now consider the positions of someone who doesn't choose an airplane logo, or an aircraft related callsign and let's see what conclusion commends itself.

I have drawn attention to the less obvious aspects of this TA that argue for it being turned down, leaving most of the issues to others, with whom I find broad, though not unanimous, agreement.

The less obvious issues I have chosen to draw attention to include:

Per diem is too low. It should be the higher Government Rates which reset each year.

Multiple sections on deadheading, seats and banks are so poorly worded that any attempt to arbitrate it will fail. We needed someone as pedantic about semantics as Tony or Raptor or CloudSailor looking over this before it was sent our way.

MUV, MUS, CMU and AFB should be eligible for SUB, thus benefitting the pilots. PNP not being adequately defined, but has a priority greater than CMU.

Increase the amount of time you are allowed for intermediate stops while positioning to or from a trip.

Remove the contradiction on train travel limits in different sections.

Remove the ambiguity on SLB in the 23+remainder or 24+remainder months for those who stay till the month they turn 65. Use an example.

Pointing out that two pilots have differing opinions of how a deadheading section of the TA is to be interpreted, thus commending that it be rewritten with language that is not disputed amongst ourselves before it is even ratified.

Suggesting that, but for the obfuscation on A-380/777 payrates, the last TA would not have been ratifiable using 260 as a basis for the A plan. I suggested it would have needed to be 300 then to have a chance at being ratified. If 300 then, surely 330 by now. That would help the company with manning as people would stretch for it, rather than flying at 50c on the dollar in SLB, which many will not do. Many will draw their Disability Bank down to zero and have a partial countering effect to that which the company desires. Go back and read what I wrote.

Substitution wording changed (TAFB window greater than 72 hours) in a way that might cause the removal of a screen that currently has problems but, if fixed, would aid pilots in knowing what their choices are in the most complex portion of SUB and RAT.

I will run out of time before I run out of TA.

In short, the only way to fix many of these issues, some of which are not seemingly important until it is being grieved or arbitrated, is to vote No on this very tentative agreement. Words and concepts need to be rewritten and re-explored.

So, do you care to make another deduction? Am I a garbage guts pilot who will pour an awful lot of coffee down my gullet while working under the proposed Rules of Engagement that have me sufficiently engaged to deal with the perturbations directed at me from a cubicle dweller with multiple signins?

One thing is for sure. I don't work for Oliver Wyman.

And I have a measure of discomfort also with codifying the SLB because it pays 50c on the dollar. I am partially conflicted on this issue, but not completely. I may become sorry for using nuance with you on this issue.

For the sake of being even keeled, I will go off message here. I think there are significant benefits in the fatigue section especially. My commendation to all who worked on it. Obvious care conceptually and attention to detail in the wording. Well done. I read that section and I think PSP.

But since you like to do sleuth work, what is the other significant part of our arrangement with the company that has pilots working for 50c on the dollar? Hint. If one of my suggestions that I listed were enacted, to a degree, it would be lessened; to the benefit of pilots and the company.

See, that wasn't so hard, was it? I'm sure people appreciate your interest, no matter the reason

Gosh, I hope you aren't talking about me. The only way I won't fly under this TA is if it doesn't pass, or if I drop dead before it goes into affect (possible for any FedEx pilot).

And I still hope you aren't referring to me. I'm one of the kinder, gentler posters on this forum. I just have a problem with trolls. But now that we appear to have established that you are neither a troll, nor a FedEx pilot, I can stop calling you out for that, if it bothers you.

Uhhh........what?:confused:


Really, PSP?:D

Oh man, I need to get a drink!

I do not know who or what you are. You are not a line pilot for FDX. Work over vacation? It's one of the first things we learn that you can't do. Don't know your motivation and don't really care.

Keep shilling for a TA that codifies flying for 50c on the dollar in at least two ways.

Others will think outside the box for ways that the company might agree to 150c on the dollar in the future.

PolicyWonk,

Would you mind sharing your seat progression on here?

An arbiter of all things FedEx. You must feel very clever. But Occam's Razor continues to elude you.

I haven't sold back vacation during this TA process. I can't remember the last time I did.

But I do look to the future after we have a ratifiable TA and ask how we can work for more - especially if we can do so while doing less.

What if a pilot didn't want to sell his whole vacation back, but might be willing to draft on the tail end. Would you be philosophically opposed to that or would you insist that he only be allowed to take all or nothing. Or would you remove the present sellback option entirely?

Do you personally support the new, additional, way of working for 50c on the dollar while opposing new ways of working for 150c on the dollar?

By the way, I very much agree with DLax in his desire to be properly manned. The schedules have suffered from our under-manning. The lines on my airplane are getting worse four times faster than I'm moving up. I'm quite sure under-manning is not the only issue at work in that phenomenon, but it is one cause if I'm applying induction and deduction correctly.

You are so fickle in which questions you answer.

But you love to brandish invective in all your personas.

PolicyWonk,

What has been your seat progression? You won't be divulging your identity by posting it.

I only have two personas. One involves my wife, our bedroom and a pink tutu.

Jesus, I'm going to join busdrvr12 for that drink...

[QUOTE=PolicyWonk;1985506]An arbiter of all things FedEx. You must feel very clever. But Occam's Razor continues to elude you.

I haven't sold back vacation during this TA process. I can't remember the last time I did.

Of course you haven't sold back vacation, you can't if you don't work at FX. The question about draft during vacation is just funny.

Wasn't there a former UPS guy who got hired at FX and was fired during probation? I think that's who Policy is.

I'm hoping, for your sake, that your wife looks better in it than you do. Or that you don't have hairy legs. PW thinks there is one person with 57 different personas on this forum.

So if you're one of the many personas, I hope you had one for me. I slept on the flight, and got to the hotel so late that the bar is closed! Maybe PW can negotiate hotels that have 24 hour bars in our next TA, or at least a
50% override if it doesn't.:)

Shack! But I still voted "No"!

Wait till it gets personal.