Sick Grievance
 

Just wondering what would cause a pilot's STS score to exceed the company's established threshold. What is the threshold?

That's still a secret. Only change I see is that we no longer get paid for a trip if we don't provide a sick note after one has been requested.

Forget about it. If the company wants a sick note, I'll provide a sick note. Even if I'm off a one day trip for a cold. If they want me to go to the doctor, and FedEx wants to pay the $200 doctor's visit charge, and whatever blood tests the doc might order up, even for a freaking cold, it's their money, they can spend it. I have no problem ponying up the $20 copay to avoid harassment. They want a doctor's note, they got it.

Though it's kind of embarrassing when the doctor laughs and says it's kind of weird that we're being treated like grade school kids. I can handle it.:eek:

So, let me get this straight...the worst case is they drop the trip without pay for doing nothing??? Sounds like a win to me

From various reliable sources (and the Fleet Captain handbook):

3 points - any sick event that doesn't fit any other category
4 points - Before a block of R Days or before the end of a Block of R days
5 points - In conjunction with a Check Ride or a Sim Event
6 points - In conjunction with a Holiday or Vacation

Some points hang on for 12 months, others 24 months (e.g. Check Ride/Sim).

At 12 total points in the "look back period", automatic computer generated messages for a doctor's note occurred. Once the Grievance settlement is implemented, the "Sick Czar" (Chief Pilot's designee) will have unfettered ability to analyze this highly complex data and make a decision that will never set any precedent. That seems reasonable! :eek:

At 17 points, you were "invited in for a chat".

At 23 points, management could elect to harass you with CBA 15.D.. In their perverted logic, 23 points meets the qualifications of CBA 15.D.1. :confused:

As you can see, this is a very complex tracking system (STS) which involves massive computing power and a large staff of programmers to implement (perhaps that is the root cause of our IT problems). :rolleyes: That is also why it may take until June 30, 2017 (or perhaps longer if mutually agreed (e.g ".. but in no event.... unless mutually agreed!?!?!?!)) to be able to program in the "massive changes" from the Grievance Settlement.

Will someone like LK or DM be appointed the "Sick Czar"? Will it be a V.P position? Nothing would surprise me at this point.

The really sad part is that many sane, logical, professional solutions to the Sick Leave Usage "problem(s)" exist, but management seems incapable of figuring out what they are.

I guess like Training, Goodwill has no cost.

DISCLAIMER: I checked with Hillary and she is convinced that none of this is classified.


..

I suspect that a CBA 15.D medical exam will be with a Company designated doctor with the results going directly to Harvey Watt for their medical expertise (you may not even get a copy of the results). Are 15.D exams paid for by Management (I think they get billed directly to FedEx?).

You shouldn't even have to provide insurance information?

Also ... if you get sent for a 15.D medical exam aren't you supposed to be removed from your trip by Management (RMG) and PAID for said trip?

If you do not live in domicile does the Company have to pay for a hotel and rental car?

All of this seems like a LOT of trouble and expense for a cold!*? So much for FUEL SENSE?


:confused:

Not that it matters but I call in when sick and pretty much stay in the >17 point range but have never been called in for a chat. I also refuse to fly sick no matter what they want me to do.

I can't call in sick anymore. And, I won't use any vacation my last year at FDX. I'm trying to build up my sick bank so that I can get the full "End of Career Sick Leave Buy Back" money. I'll receive that, the vacation buyback and the 12 month retirement notice bonus money.

That way, when I retire, I can delay my "Benefit Commencement Date" for almost a year. That, will increase my A-plan benefit, which will help make up for not negotiating an increase in the A-Plan in the contract. I learned all this at one of our retirement seminars. Awesome!!:rolleyes:

Sorry, if you catch something from me.

That seems like a fine strategy until you are in the market for post-retirement life insurance or healthcare insurance and you get to that question on the application, "How many times have you visited a doctor in the past year?" They won't care if the visits are for real health problems or for untethered Assistant Chief Pilot problems -- they just want the number, and it may affect your eligibility and/or rates.






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Maybe it's a win if your lender allows you to skip mortgage payments or make partial mortgage payments for the months you are sick.

What it amounts to is allowing a management pilot, not a doctor, to make a decision to deprive you of your negotiated contractual benefit to be paid on a day you are sick.

What I fear most is pilots using the third method to meet the sick note requirement, the "discussing it with the SCP designee who may conclude the sick note is no longer necessary" method. Heaven only knows what that guy's expertise in medicine and health care is, what his standards will be, whether his decisions will be fair and consistent across the board, just to name a few of the myriad of reasons why it should be a doctor, not a management pilot, making the confirmation that the pilot was sick. This SCP designee will ultimately be given the authority to determine if the pilot was fit to fly, and therefore the Sick is replaced by a Drop, or if he was NOT fit to fly, and therefore let the Sick stand. In the eyes of the FAA, this fitness determination is only to be made by the pilot himself, the guy who called in sick. Finally, the pilot pleading his case before this designated arbiter will be inclined if not pressured to reveal details about his personal health information that are presently protected by HIPAA law. We should have no procedure that puts a pilot in this position.






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I am so glad I will retire soon! ;)

Seeing as I plan on keeping company insurance after I retire, I suspect it will be fine. And since I rarely get asked for a letter, it is probably inconsequential. My desire to not be harassed is greater than my desire not to occasionally visit my doctor unnecessarily.

This actually isn't funny. This very thing happened to me almost a year ago. I got sick after the trip and got my wife and 2 of my kids sick. Was down for almost a week with a terrible cold. I'll never fly with a sick person again. Just sad when I have to draw that line. You'd expect a little more from a professional.

From SCP's note on PFC:

A pilot will have 10 business days to provide the required documentation. If the documentation is not received by the deadline, the pilot's absence may be re-coded from SCK to DRP without pay and without makeup eligibility.

What does "without makeup eligibility" mean?

It means the hours will not go into your makeup bank!

There seem to be procedures for the company that violate HIPPA. I do not think a cba or LOA can supersede federal law, even if we gave it up/waived it in this settlement. Something for the lawyers to rule on. If one does not want to divulge their personal condition/health to a company administrator HIPPA should protect that, and FAA order 8900 states that a pilot is "solely" responsible for determining his fitness to fly.

The tricky part is that the "discussing it with the SCP designee" route doesn't require the pilot to divulge their personal condition/health to him. It will only place the pilot in a situation where he/she will be inclined to divulge their personal condition/health. Let's say the pilot was sick, and he didn't visit a doctor, and he doesn't want to endure the hassle of dealing with the "Company doc," so he decides to just call the SCP designee and explain that he suffered a bout of diarrhea right before show time and didn't want to chance a repeat performance in the air. The Company didn't violate HIPPA if the pilot volunteered the information, but the pilot shouldn't be in the habit of volunteering that type of information. The next time it's a cold, and the "SCP designee" gives the pilot the thumbs up, and the time after that it's something else the pilot doesn't mind sharing. Then it's something more embarrassing that he doesn't want to share, so he doesn't. The SCP designee notes the pilot volunteered his health condition the last three times, but now the pilot is singing a different tune, and he elects to change the SICK to a DROP without Makeup. What's the pilot's recourse?

No HIPPA violation, just a chatty Kathy pilot who is now short some bucks in his paycheck.






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I think if the SCP designee wants to get into a discussion about one's illness, we should all just go into a detailed explanation of problems with our lady parts (whether we have them or not, who's to know?);)

Although I am quite familiar with "lady parts"...I don't actually know the proper names for them. So, I think it would be better if I just stick with diarrhea.

So you missed that episode of Seinfeld, did ya? :D

The Junior Mint






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Two words for you. Urban Dictionary:

"Top Definition

lady parts
Conspicuous parts of a woman's anatomy. Adding the conjunction "in" implies deliberate touching of said parts.
This place is hella crowded; people keep bumping against my lady parts.

Nick is so annoying, he's always trying to touch me in my lady parts.

The motorcycle ride was fun but my lady parts are aching."

The Junior Mint was one of the best episodes of Seinfeld, and it sounds like you could learn a lot from it:D

15.D:

Harvey Watt has the designated Doctor, former head FAA Aeromedical Doc. An administrator calls and tells you to provide ALL medical documents from your doctors for review. EVERYTHING...then they go fishing. When HW was asked what specifically they need or what they are looking for they say "we don't know FedEx has not given anything specific"...

ALPA attorney is real quick to let you know 1) You better not get your own attorney, 2) They advise you just cooperate and not ask the company for anything in writing...we don't like to upset them 3) You get no guidance on what you are required to do vs volunteer.

And don't expect an ALPA rep to attend the meeting with you they will promise you that its not that big a deal, its a formality, just be honest...its a witch hunt, you are already guilty walking into the room. You are expected to explain your PRIVATE medical history...doctors notes mean dick to them. As Tony said...they expect you to be a 'Chatty Kathy' and if you don't then you are being difficult and they get threatening real quick. You are on your own.

ALPA Aeromedical will review your medial history and let you know what to expect but thats about it. Then you sit at home waiting and get NO info from anyone until CRS calls and tells you are assigned a trip out of the blue. Assuming they find nothing.

The funny thing about 15.D is the catch 22...you are called in for being sick and they think you are abusing the system and unprofessional. The company then puts you on NOQ during a 'staffing crisis' because they question if you are fit to fly (I hope you have a good aeromedical guy willing to get in a ****ing match and fight for you). They use the premiss of fit to fly to have a 3rd party Doctor review all of your medial history (send us everything from the last 18 months) to see if your sick calls were legit. So am I not fit to fly or scamming the system...what is it?

You need to stay positive and TRY and look at it as paid vacation and you will prevail. Ultimately you have a few very incompetent managers in this and they are wasting everyones time. But they hope the intimidation factor changes your health.

??Dolores???

I wonder why this does not fall under "hostile work environment rules"?

Several thoughts ...

#1. (Most important thought) Do the FAR's say I'm not fit for duty when I know I'm sick? If the answer is yes then why can't I ask Management to call the FAA when they want more information about my illness? I'll be glad to discuss it with the FAA. Would the FAA tolerate this nonsense?

#2. Concerning BWP's Contract Section 15.D discussion ... I'm not sure anything he said was correct? When I got called in to discuss an FOM issue with Management, ALPA Legal was glad to accompany me. They explained in detail what to expect. During my subsequent 15.D status I was removed from all flights and paid in an MGT (removed by Management) status. Harvey Watt then arranged 5 medical appointments over the next 4 months. All medical bills were sent directly to Harvey Watt for payment.

The Harvey Watt doctors appear to be Contract AMEs located in their personal offices around the country. They seem to change frequently, I was assigned different doctors located in different cities. Interestingly, when the Harvey Watt doc gave Management the "wrong" answer (not the answer they wanted), I was mysteriously assigned a different doctor (is Management practicing medicine without a license?).

The FAA later investigated the FOM compliance issue and sent me a letter stating that they'd found "NO VIOLATION OF REGULATIONS."

#3. Dolores? My opinion ... she's one of the more "reasonable" Managers in the MEM "brother-in-law cubicle club" but that doesn't make any of this reasonable. I really like Dolores but I don't think I want to discuss my medical history with her.

#4. Really? Are we really having this discussion? If Management wants us to act like Professionals, then please treat us like professionals!*? Is that so much to ask?

At a previous airline when Management started making unreasonable demands we'd add extra gas and fly around with the speed brakes extended. The Airline would usually notice our displeasure almost immediately and the problem would "magically" get negotiated to a satisfactory conclusion with the Union.


:eek:

Dude,
Dolores was a Seinfeld comment
😬

ASAP
 

I think if I ever get a request for a sick note, that isn't mentioned as required in the CBA, I will comply. Then I will fill out an ASAP report. I will mention pilot pushing in the report. We are required to report safety issues, and this is a big one!

Imagine what the feds would think about a rash of ASAP reports involving pilot pushing.

You had a different experience it does not change these facts. I have no motivation to make this up but inform others of what is going on. You don't know me so I wouldn't expect you to be sure anything I said was correct and I didn't ask for validation.

Do you guys have to get doctor's notes for all your sick calls or just ones that score a certain way in the mgmnt matrix?

We used to need a sick note for sick in conjunction with vacation, a major holiday, or something that triggered the matrix. I'm not sure how this agreement changes anything, but I haven't had to provide a note for years.

About 10 notes in the past 3 or so years. Every time I have called sick! Only 1 on a holiday. I guess I am in the matrix.

BWP,
My experience with Harvey Watt closely mirrored your experience. Every situation is different and the experience therefore, will be somewhat different. Your experience with how the union handled it was different than mine, but your experience doesn't surprise me at all (based on others I have spoken with).

MM,
You stated, "#2. Concerning BWP's Contract Section 15.D discussion ... I'm not sure anything he said was correct?" Likewise, you are not sure anything he said was incorrect. I think you owe him an apology.

Maybe we're forgetful from lack of sleep?
 

How many times did you call in sick to generate the 10 requests for notes? Was it every time? 10 notes out of 50 calls? 70 calls? Just curious.

Not speaking for him, but the way I read it was every time he called in sick, they wanted a note...10 notes for 10 calls.

My doctor must have seen this scenario before ...

Whenever I would ask him for a note for work he would write on a prescription pad, "Mayday Mark was seen on July 29, 1016. Should be OK to return to work after September 15th" (6 weeks in the future!).

If Management wants a childish doctors note, why not turn it into 6 weeks of sick leave? After all ... you wouldn't want me to get all of the other kids sick would you?

It's disappointing that their treating professionals this way :-(


:confused:

Every time.

This is HILARIOUS! I'm going to ask my Doctor to do the same.