318 Tools at Flexjet Vote Union Out
 

Sorry, but I felt this deserved its own thread.

Unfreakingbelievable.

318 Tools at Flexjet Vote Union Out
 

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If it were me... I’d get out. I’d get out fast to avoid the stigma that follows.

All major Unions have been very clear imho.

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Dumpster fire indeed. This is now officially the worst place to work in the industry.

Is this what unions do when they don’t get their way?

318 Tools at Flexjet Vote Union Out
 

No.

It’s what I would do.

And rapidly.

Yep, leave now or put all your eggs in Ricci’s basket. I know what I would choose.

This really shouldn't come as any surprise. The FX guys have forever and a day been the most anti-union entity to ever walk the earth. Persona non grata to any FX'er that ever tries to get on my airplane.

I feel awful for the folks who supported the Union. Ricci has a proven past of treating his pilots terribly and the majority of the guys believe that he has changed.

There is going to be a short-lived honeymoon where Ricci will treat his pilots well and show them that they did the right thing. It may even last 3-5 years. Then, he will start taking away pay, retirement, work rules and everything else. He will say it is ok because it is good for the Onesky family.

I grew up anti-union in a town where factory unions grew too strong and were moved out of the country. It decimated my town. Reluctantly, I became a union member in the aviation industry. It only took about 2-3 years to realize that I will never fly for another aviation company that is not represented by a Union.

Good luck to you all. For those poor fellas who supported the Union, get out. And do it fast...


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How stupid can you get ?
 

These shortsighted morons probably don’t realize that they just gave Ricci every opportunity to screw them over every chance he gets.
Now they have no recourse,no seat at the table and absolutely no voice when it comes to their quality of life on the road.
I mean,lets face it QOL on the road at Flex/flops was pretty crappy when they had a union,now.......
Just wait till they start putting these guys in fleabag hotels an hour from their airport just to get a few dollars cheaper rate.
Just wait till whatever little benefits they had go away.....
Hopefully the taint of belonging to a union busting scab outfit wont follow the pilots that voted to not De-cert as they start leaving for other opportunities.
As for the guys that voted to De-cert....you will get the job you deserve.

What was final count?

318 to 220, 571 eligible to vote.

Wow, not even close!!!

318 to 220
551 Eligible
541 Voted

The majority spoke, which is the point of a vote, is it not? Because the majority of the pilots made a decision, they've been declared "tools." Interesting that the minority, having failed to achieve their wish, condemn the majority decision.

No, the majority voted IBT1108 or voted with their feet to get out.

The tools won their battle and lost the war. FJ pilots took it in the shorts with seniority just minutes after the vote when longevity was awarded to the transfers who took big metal out of seniority.

The see I told you so’s will be served up hot and fresh for years to come for the dopes who believe in Saint Ricci of the Rustbelt.

Well, so far so good for Flexjet pilots:
1. Reinstate longevity for transfer pilots
2. Increase First Officer compensation for better retention
3. Increase Phenom compensation
4. Increase voluntary overtime compensation as we focus on hiring
5. Reinstate individual employment agreements

Doesn’t sound bad to me. Guess you’ll just have to see how the year turns out.

Bait and switch
 

That’s called the carrot before the stick Capt short sight! You are obviously one of the 318 tools who put this pilot group in this unusual attitude we cannot recover from! Nice job! You very well may live to regret your decision to crash and burn this place! If so, you better become a FOK if your not already! It’s your only parachute to surviving this dive!

1. Longevity benefits the transfers who took big metal out of seniority. It screws the FJ pilots to the tune of about 100 spots in seniority.

2. Wow, even you can make mid $70k working your a$$ of on an 8/6 schedule in the Ricci sweat shop. You realize that even the lowest paid ULCC’s are making $100k+ by year 2 with far better QOL, retirement, medical and benefits and far less work than the right seat of a Phenom or Lear right?

3. Yay. More money to be crammed into a Phenis Lego Jet.

4. Voluntary OT. The mythical Ricci rabbit. It’s all involuntary. You’re already on the road 17-19 days a month.

5. You mean those pieces of paper your V.P. of Red Label loudly proclaimed to be not worth the paper they were written on, but you better sign or else?

Your pilots got bent over in the first 30 minutes after the vote, and there will be no retention or hiring. You have 20+ uncrewed planes a day, can’t get guys to finish indoc or OE once they realize they’ll be in a Phenom for a decade instead of a Challenger, and have another 150-200 ready to march out the door in the next 18 months. FJ is a dead man walking, and youre whistling past the graveyard to believe otherwise.

Yea it has nothing to do with a major pilot shortage and everything to do with voting he union out. [emoji849]

318 Tools at Flexjet Vote Union Out
 

These are the new FO pay rates at Flex.

The increased ones.

NetJets currently offers a maximum pay rate of $140,000 for FOs at year 13 and 3 years into the CBA.

That’s a $60,000 disparity from what I’m seeing. Plus benefits, 401K, representation, etc.

Just the beginning guys. Get those apps in!

FLEX

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NJA

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49 votes, or about the amount of new hires they promised out of seniority upgrades. If 49 had voted for representation, we would have been deadlocked. So closer than you think at first glance.

Anyone want to prognosticate who is the first one (are the first ones) terminated? As a bonus, call the time when the purge starts! I'll start: original Flex organizing committee members and eboard members. It will start before the weekend.

Route 66 is union hater, scab wannabe not a FlexJet pilot thus his gross ignorance.

Flytolive is a liberal left wing antifa scumbag who doesn’t believe pilots can make intelligent decisions for themselves. Flytolive has to call people names, threaten people with violence, has a low IQ and his only repartee is to demean anyone who doesn’t march to his low standards of Aviation. He and those like him are the reasons 1108 lost. Think about it. It’s happening at the major airlines too.

Pay NO attention to the “Flytolive” behind the curtain.

There. Doesn’t that kind of diatribe make you “pro-union”liberals feel better and accomplished now? As your titanic is sinking around you dont you think it’s time to think that maybe you’re looking at the way labor is doing business is DOING IT WRONG or are new and better ways available to accomplish our professions goals?

I just don’t believe pilots will gain. History repeats itself with us, we always attack and demean others instead of trying to fix what’s wrong. Sounds like the democrat party.

Like flex jet fine good for you. Hate flex jet fine good for you. Quit (if you work there) everyone wins. Want to work there you will have better QOL flying single pilot freight. Just saying. Same thing can be said of regional pilots as well.

Let’s be clear, I do not believe that a career F/O is anyone’s aspiration and will be where attrition for any carrier less than a legacy will retain pilots. From my discussion with many of the pilots who voted against 1108 it was the loss of the LOS that was stripped from the, because of the arbitration. I’m not surprised at this. And here Again is the reason unions are losing their grips. Cross-group unity is sparce at best. Look, Ricci probably isn’t going to pay major salaries, there is no surprise. But you will see improvements over the year or then you can expect a union push next year. Even the airline union model here at the legacy American is weak because of poor contract language. Give the LEC rep here in Charlotte a call and ask hi, how bad the scheduling (rescheduling) provisions are over here. The Dallas LEC and Dallas President runs the show.

Thank you for saying in a short statement what I sometimes take twice as long to say.

I don’t have NJ salaries available but if Ricci wants pilots, like everyone else (including American) they will be paying competitive salaries or he won’t get pilots. Look, this supply and demand situation has the potential to play out well for the profession if labor could start thinking outside the box and be willing to be more inclusive across Company platforms. They call those things SOPs.

Airline pilot compensation has doubled in the last five years and you characterize it as the Titanic sinking. Who is that guy talking to himself? Route66.

Does Flex have 12 year FOs? NOPE

The true FACTS are that OUR MANAGEMENT gave us:

1. The Pay raises in 2017 (don't tell me it was because they HAD to or lose pilots to Delta/United, thats obvious. Our inferior LAA contract didn't include increased compensation tied to profits)
2. Profit sharing (you know, the stuff the APA didn't care about when they stabbed the LUS pilots in the back by going around us and negotiated their own INFERIOR contract that we still live up to today)
3. Last years $1000 bonus that the union DIDNT negotiate for.

The titanic is the sinking of the UNION mentality that they are the ones that got it for you when in reality the Companys are simply addressing supply and demand. I still get the inside APA info here.

Flexjet/Options pilots. You're smart. Don't let 1108 and these other guys try to dissuade your choice. You made it, live by it and make it work.....or not. Ricci, Parker and the others in management seem to be trying to make it work competitively. Only time will tell but what 1108 doesn't want you to do is succeed. The responses here from the union side hate you and don't want you to succeed.

If you don't like it leave for another carrier. Thats the way its always been.

Seniority number 338 has a hire date of 10/9/2000 and is a Phenom first officer...so the bs meter just pegged.

It sounds like route66 likes to bash his Union from the comfort of his legally binding contract. Let me guess, he doesn't ever get involved, except to b**ch from the peanut gallery.

I’m assuming by LOS you mean longevity of service. If that’s the case then yes, the decerters lost it when they transferred to FJ, and jumped seniority to take the large metal positions in exchange for wearing Ken a Ricci knee pads.

They were brought over specifically to influence the vote in this way. You’re about to find the majority of the original FJ pilot group completely screwed by the seniority list as envisioned by Ken Ricci. Not that seniority means much to him anyway.

You have a very interesting notion that the only people who want unions are left leaning individuals. Quite the contrary, a goodly number of those in union positions at Flex are staunch conservatives. Some even run blogs with that express tilt. But they also realize that aviation management groups would happily run min rest/max duty, no QOL, no schedule, underpaid sweatshops if guve their druthers. In fact, that’s exactly where Flex is headed. It’s the Ricci way and he’s very consistent.

And in what universe do you ever think ANY union will want to represent you guys after a decert? That ship has sailed! ALPA hell no, Teamsters again hell no, NJASAP hell no, in house union, nope you guys can’t afford the assessment,The Phildo donkey show....good chance but I think SAG would be your best bet since you guys are going to get bent over the casting couch by the Harvey Weinstein of aviation! :D

FWIW we have the same problems here at American that you do at FJ. You'd be surprised at how many guys tell me their contract at ______ was way better than ours. Its just that our management coats it with enough "sugar" to make it go down easier.

As far as the seniority issue goes, my understanding that Options pilots were asked to go over to FJ to help with their shortage and Ricci promised them they wouldn't lose their Options seniority. When the arbitrator shoved it back down Ricci/transfer pilots throats thats when the screws came out for 1108.

I think 1108 could've handled it better, but they didn't and history is made. My point here is not whether I'm wrong/you're right gets batted back and forth like a shuttlecock but whether the "union" industry can right an increasingly sinking union ship.

I've come on here trying to show that the courts are increasingly finding fault against the unions, arbitrations are a "King Solomon" solution that continues to split the baby and as a profession WE need to form a NATIONAL solution where career paths in this industry give all pilots the security and compensation they truly deserve while eliminating parochial interests.

I can dream.

Oh come on. Really? The unions will be back. Its called....CONTROL, MONEY, MOOLAH, etc.

They'll be back. Mark my words. What universe? How about EARTH.

Back to realville.

Nope. They have more than a few 17-18 year FO’s.


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What exactly is wrong with the unions? You "don't believe pilots will gain?" You do realize union pilots are making 30/40/50k+ per month now? The very best contracts in the aviation world are union contracts. We have UPS/DAL/UAL/AAL/SWA pilots making 450+k per year with great QOL under union contracts. Please show us some non union contracts with similar pay and working conditions.

How long until you retire? I'm sure Flexjet will welcome a union hater like you with open arms. You can work 12 months to make what your ex colleagues at AA will be making in 2 months.

I’m not at FJ. I refuse to work for Ken Ricci with or without a contract.

Your understanding of the Flops transfer situation is wrong. Flexjet was forced to stop hiring, in fact numerous individuals were hung out to dry after being hired, and bring on any Flops transfers or furloughees. These transfers and furloughees were then able to hold positions at Flex well above what their Flops seniority would dictate, and in the case of the big metal leap frogged the FJ group as well. As a result, they were awarded the lowest seniority on the FJ list.

The arbitrator agreed with the union on this stance. The transfers weren’t screwed. They were used to screw the remainder of the pilot group, often willingly, in an attempt to rid OneSky of its union.

Further, the arbitrator expressly stated in his ruling that re lack of union support played a large role in his decisions. In other words, the fault for Flex’s average contract lies not with the union, but with roughly half the pilot group who couldn’t tell you even today what a single union proposal was for the contract. Such was the willful ignorance.

Over 20% of the pilot group has left. FJ can’t hire or retain. They’re non competitive with any major airline in any facet of compensation or quality of life. Their owner doesn’t believe there’s a pilot shortage, thinks his terrible schedules, rest rules, shoddy mx, laughable emphasis on training and backstabbing culture will attract candidates. No. It’s alreay clear he’s wrong. And that’s before folks interested in a job a Flex find out that he firmly believes in underpaying 80% of his employees and thinks seniority has no place in his model.

You can dream about fixing unions and chasing whatever the issue of the day is at AA. With regard to Flex you are woefully uninformed. I don’t blame you for that as an outsider, but should know how off base you positions are without first hand knowledge of FJ.