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Flexjet Schedules, Etc?
Howdy Peeps,
Can someone please post in plain-speak fashion FlexJet work schedules? Of these work schedules, what can a new hire hold? What can a new hire expect with respect to assigned airframe? (present and future) How does class seniority work? (assuming there is a protocol) TIA:) G |
There is no seniority. Advancement is based on how well you play the skin flute.
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New hires can expect to start in Phenom 300, Legacy 450 or Challenger 300/350 (assigned by company). Quickest Captain upgrade is in in the Phenom 300 which is currently less than 2 years. Its done by SENIORITY.
There is PBS schedule (Preferential Bidding System) along with 8-7 fixed or 7-7 fixed available. Your choice after training. The fixed schedules pay about 30% less than PBS. I don't think many new hires opt for that. PBS Quick Overview - The schedule consists of 14,15 or 16 work days per 28 day bid period. You bid for 4,5 or 6 day trips. If a pilot has a PBS schedule with 6 days of work, minimum of 4 days off. A pilot with 4 or 5 days of work will have a minimum of 3 days off. These are considered Green lines that the company may assign. Yellow lines of 12,13, 17 or 18 days of work could also be bid . A Yellow line cannot be assigned unless the pilot bids for it. |
Originally Posted by MudhammedCJ
(Post 2856073)
There is no seniority. Advancement is based on how well you play the skin flute.
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Originally Posted by Kurat
(Post 2856075)
New hires can expect to start in Phenom 300, Legacy 450 or Challenger 300/350 (assigned by company). Quickest Captain upgrade is in in the Phenom 300 which is currently less than 2 years. Its done by SENIORITY.
There is PBS schedule (Preferential Bidding System) along with 8-7 fixed or 7-7 fixed available. Your choice after training. The fixed schedules pay about 30% less than PBS. I don't think many new hires opt for that. PBS Quick Overview - The schedule consists of 14,15 or 16 work days per 28 day bid period. You bid for 4,5 or 6 day trips. If a pilot has a PBS schedule with 6 days of work, minimum of 4 days off. A pilot with 4 or 5 days of work will have a minimum of 3 days off. These are considered Green lines that the company may assign. Yellow lines of 12,13, 17 or 18 days of work could also be bid . A Yellow line cannot be assigned unless the pilot bids for it. |
You are paid $421 per day of work as a new hire. Daily rate X number of days worked. Minimum pay would never be less than 14 days/bid period unless you voluntarily bid less. Average is about 15.5 for most.
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Also, if you live at an out base like PNS, plan on 8 day trips. I have been getting 8/6, 8/7 type schedules on PBS as a new hire. But, so far this has been a really good job.
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Originally Posted by Kurat
(Post 2856075)
New hires can expect to start in Phenom 300, Legacy 450 or Challenger 300/350 (assigned by company). Quickest Captain upgrade is in in the Phenom 300 which is currently less than 2 years. Its done by SENIORITY.
There is PBS schedule (Preferential Bidding System) along with 8-7 fixed or 7-7 fixed available. Your choice after training. The fixed schedules pay about 30% less than PBS. I don't think many new hires opt for that. PBS Quick Overview - The schedule consists of 14,15 or 16 work days per 28 day bid period. You bid for 4,5 or 6 day trips. If a pilot has a PBS schedule with 6 days of work, minimum of 4 days off. A pilot with 4 or 5 days of work will have a minimum of 3 days off. These are considered Green lines that the company may assign. Yellow lines of 12,13, 17 or 18 days of work could also be bid . A Yellow line cannot be assigned unless the pilot bids for it. G |
So a 7 on 7 off schedule NetJets style is possible at Flex? How would the compensation compare to NetJets short and long term working 7&7? Has anyone run the numbers and come up with a ballpark?
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Originally Posted by Das Auto
(Post 2856627)
So a 7 on 7 off schedule NetJets style is possible at Flex? How would the compensation compare to NetJets short and long term working 7&7? Has anyone run the numbers and come up with a ballpark?
NetJets guys earn more. Way, way more. And they don't have to worry about getting sniped by a bunch company tools every time they show up for work, which is something you can't even begin to put a dollar amount to. Go to NetJets, young man. |
Originally Posted by Kurat
(Post 2856075)
New hires can expect to start in Phenom 300, Legacy 450 or Challenger 300/350 (assigned by company). Quickest Captain upgrade is in in the Phenom 300 which is currently less than 2 years. Its done by SENIORITY.
There is PBS schedule (Preferential Bidding System) along with 8-7 fixed or 7-7 fixed available. Your choice after training. The fixed schedules pay about 30% less than PBS. I don't think many new hires opt for that. PBS Quick Overview - The schedule consists of 14,15 or 16 work days per 28 day bid period. You bid for 4,5 or 6 day trips. If a pilot has a PBS schedule with 6 days of work, minimum of 4 days off. A pilot with 4 or 5 days of work will have a minimum of 3 days off. These are considered Green lines that the company may assign. Yellow lines of 12,13, 17 or 18 days of work could also be bid . A Yellow line cannot be assigned unless the pilot bids for it. |
You are allowed to select Fixed vs PBS every 6 months. PBS operates on a 28 day bid schedule. Usually posted about 1 month prior.
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Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski
(Post 2862413)
Posted ad nausem in about a dozen other threads on this forum.
Go to NetJets, young man. I like the young man part though. Carry on. |
On these 4,5, or 6 day trips, how many flights will you fly per day?
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Originally Posted by grumpydwarf
(Post 2910127)
On these 4,5, or 6 day trips, how many flights will you fly per day?
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Originally Posted by JMO127
(Post 2910144)
2-3 average. Sometimes 4
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Originally Posted by shrsailplanes
(Post 2910247)
With 2-3 flights per day (average), is there a lot of sitting and waiting? In other words, is your duty time still 14 hours regardless?
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Originally Posted by JMO127
(Post 2910249)
There is airport rot. The biggest negative for me. Not always 14hrs. But a lot of it with min rest.
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Originally Posted by shrsailplanes
(Post 2910255)
Thanks for the quick response. Do you know if NetJets is similar in that regard?
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Originally Posted by JMO127
(Post 2910256)
I can't speak for NETJETS but the forums suggest its along the same lines.
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Originally Posted by shrsailplanes
(Post 2910261)
Thanks. I’m currently at a regional. In the early spring, I’ll have 1000hrs in an ERJ175 and I have been looking very closely at fractionals.
Spent 2 decades at Options. I definitely wouldn’t look at Flex. No Union and KR will always have his good ol boys club. Do the math from above posts that’s been provided. You are looking at basically 202 days a year work. Now granted I’m fairly senior FO at Spirit but I work between 11 and 13 days a month usually 12 which still gets me to min credit. That’s conservatively 45 to 60 less work days a year. Not to mention the flexibility to manipulate your schedule dropping, swapping or adding trips something that you will not be able to do at a Fractional. Biggest selling point the fracs have is the home basing. If you are dead set on fractional then Netjets otherwise keep hammering at the Majors. |
Originally Posted by LloydBraun
(Post 2913327)
Why!
Spent 2 decades at Options. I definitely wouldn’t look at Flex. No Union and KR will always have his good ol boys club. Do the math from above posts that’s been provided. You are looking at basically 202 days a year work. Now granted I’m fairly senior FO at Spirit but I work between 11 and 13 days a month usually 12 which still gets me to min credit. That’s conservatively 45 to 60 less work days a year. Not to mention the flexibility to manipulate your schedule dropping, swapping or adding trips something that you will not be able to do at a Fractional. Biggest selling point the fracs have is the home basing. If you are dead set on fractional then Netjets otherwise keep hammering at the Majors. A few reasons I think a lot of people consider fractionals. 1) As you mentioned home basing. This is a big one. Fact is that most bases, especially junior bases are in high cost of living, sometimes less than desirable places to live. It’s like they always say, location, location, location. 2)Pay. Now before I get ripped apart on this one hear me out. Flexjet advertises 100K starting pay. That’s not bad when you consider regional level pay even up through multiple year seniority captain. Now if you’re talking long term, of course there is no argument, pay at a major will likely surpass what you can make here. But for some of us, time is not a luxury we can afford. 3). Captain Upgrade. In as little as 2 years you can upgrade to captain, meaning better pay. Regional is 1000hrs min. which can vary significantly depending on airline. 1.5 years likely being the average at a regional. Compare the Captain pay at the regionals vs. fractional. 4)flight benefits. You may say that 121 outright wins this, with perks like KCM and CASS it’s great, I agree. On the other hand fractionals keep all points for travel, hotel points, and car rental points. When they travel they have positive space seating, that they didn’t have to pay for. No standby, no wearing a monkey suit to ride shotgun. 5)the flying. You mentioned how much more a fractional pilot works, some people enjoy flying. Maybe not those that fly between LGA, EWR, ORD, DCA, MSP etc. The guys that fly to the Bahamas, Hawaii, Mexico, and get paid to stay there with a healthy per diem policy, they enjoy their job. It comes down to your timeline as an individual, the young 20 something that has time to invest will undoubtedly be rewarded after sacrificing the first decade of their career to climb the ladder, the others may see the fractional as a way to enjoy life now, and hold the QOL from the get go. |
Originally Posted by Joebob21
(Post 2913526)
A few reasons I think a lot of people consider fractionals.
1) As you mentioned home basing. This is a big one. Fact is that most bases, especially junior bases are in high cost of living, sometimes less than desirable places to live. It’s like they always say, location, location, location. 2)Pay. Now before I get ripped apart on this one hear me out. Flexjet advertises 100K starting pay. That’s not bad when you consider regional level pay even up through multiple year seniority captain. Now if you’re talking long term, of course there is no argument, pay at a major will likely surpass what you can make here. But for some of us, time is not a luxury we can afford. 3). Captain Upgrade. In as little as 2 years you can upgrade to captain, meaning better pay. Regional is 1000hrs min. which can vary significantly depending on airline. 1.5 years likely being the average at a regional. Compare the Captain pay at the regionals vs. fractional. 4)flight benefits. You may say that 121 outright wins this, with perks like KCM and CASS it’s great, I agree. On the other hand fractionals keep all points for travel, hotel points, and car rental points. When they travel they have positive space seating, that they didn’t have to pay for. No standby, no wearing a monkey suit to ride shotgun. 5)the flying. You mentioned how much more a fractional pilot works, some people enjoy flying. Maybe not those that fly between LGA, EWR, ORD, DCA, MSP etc. The guys that fly to the Bahamas, Hawaii, Mexico, and get paid to stay there with a healthy per diem policy, they enjoy their job. It comes down to your timeline as an individual, the young 20 something that has time to invest will undoubtedly be rewarded after sacrificing the first decade of their career to climb the ladder, the others may see the fractional as a way to enjoy life now, and hold the QOL from the get go. Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Joebob21
(Post 2913526)
A few reasons I think a lot of people consider fractionals.
1) As you mentioned home basing. This is a big one. Fact is that most bases, especially junior bases are in high cost of living, sometimes less than desirable places to live. It’s like they always say, location, location, location. 2)Pay. Now before I get ripped apart on this one hear me out. Flexjet advertises 100K starting pay. That’s not bad when you consider regional level pay even up through multiple year seniority captain. Now if you’re talking long term, of course there is no argument, pay at a major will likely surpass what you can make here. But for some of us, time is not a luxury we can afford. 3). Captain Upgrade. In as little as 2 years you can upgrade to captain, meaning better pay. Regional is 1000hrs min. which can vary significantly depending on airline. 1.5 years likely being the average at a regional. Compare the Captain pay at the regionals vs. fractional. 4)flight benefits. You may say that 121 outright wins this, with perks like KCM and CASS it’s great, I agree. On the other hand fractionals keep all points for travel, hotel points, and car rental points. When they travel they have positive space seating, that they didn’t have to pay for. No standby, no wearing a monkey suit to ride shotgun. 5)the flying. You mentioned how much more a fractional pilot works, some people enjoy flying. Maybe not those that fly between LGA, EWR, ORD, DCA, MSP etc. The guys that fly to the Bahamas, Hawaii, Mexico, and get paid to stay there with a healthy per diem policy, they enjoy their job. It comes down to your timeline as an individual, the young 20 something that has time to invest will undoubtedly be rewarded after sacrificing the first decade of their career to climb the ladder, the others may see the fractional as a way to enjoy life now, and hold the QOL from the get go. I could give a crap about hotel points or rental car points. I don’t give a crap about exotic locations. As a guy who has sat in both seats Frac and Major, for me at least no comparison. I’m not loading bags, I’m not cleaning planes, dealing with catering or restocking. I make a left turn into the cockpit and that’s my world. When **** starts going down in back either the FA’s, gate agent or security handle it while I put my seat back and enjoy my Clif Bar. Was simply trying to point out a guy like him is very likely going to be able to get hired by a Major in the near future. If all that other stuff is that important to a person then by all means go for it but I will take my 18 days off a month, my ability to move trips, drop trips or swap trips to meet what I want to do each month with a 13 to 15% direct contribution and occupational LTD coverage to retirement age. |
Originally Posted by JMO127
(Post 2910249)
There is airport rot. The biggest negative for me. Not always 14hrs. But a lot of it with min rest.
Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk There's pros and cons everywhere. |
Flying for a major airline vs. a fractional is not the comparison the original poster was asking about. With a little seniority at any of the LCC's or Majors there really isn't much of a comparison which one would be better in my opinion. How about the thought process of jumping from a regional to get better pay and schedules at Flexjet to build time in and then apply to a major from there. I understand that the faster route is probably staying at the regional but for someone that cant afford $60K a year for the next few years is moving to a fractional a viable option for building time to get to a LCC or major airline?
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The $100k starting pay should have a huge * by it. Yes, it would be possible to make that much your first year if you’re insane enough to work 20+ days a months, count your per diem as pay and you make your fuel bonuses, which you may or may not make depending on how the PIC inserts the fuel numbers.
I’ve been here 3 years and I netted $60k last year working 16 days a month. Don’t count on making $100k your first year. Even if I made $100k a year, all the non-flying work you do, the chaos of it all and working with some of the people do (think Capt Maybelline or Capt Catering) it wouldn’t be nearly enough to be worth it. QOL trumps pay all day long and twice on sundays for me. |
Are you flying a fixed schedule or PBS?
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And what did you gross? Not net please.
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As a 3rd year SIC I made $72k.
I’m on PBS. It’s moronic to be on the fixed schedule. First year SIC on the fixed schedule makes $22,000 LESS per year than he would being on PBS, doing the same job but working longer rotations with no control over your schedule. For me, the juice doesn’t come close to being worth the squeeze but for others it is, like any other company in the world. |
Originally Posted by dh-98
(Post 2915840)
And what did you gross? Not net please.
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Ok, thanks for the quick reply
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Interview timeline?
Has anyone applied recently? How long did it take to hear back?
Thanks |
Originally Posted by arjanssen
(Post 2920229)
Has anyone applied recently? How long did it take to hear back?
Thanks |
Originally Posted by Gundriver64
(Post 2920242)
Applied back in October. Haven't heard anything.
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Originally Posted by Gundriver64
(Post 2920242)
Applied back in October. Haven't heard anything.
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Originally Posted by round2
(Post 2920279)
Applied in early October, phone screen 1 week later and interviewed on the 29th. Got the job with a class date in March. RJ CA with 5400 turbine
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Originally Posted by arjanssen
(Post 2920266)
Rog - thanks Gundriver
Not sure why I haven't heard from Flex. I think I am above average with respect to their requirements (121 time, 135 time, military, type ratings, degree, etc., etc.). I hope you hear from them soon! |
Originally Posted by Gundriver64
(Post 2920336)
You bet! Of the fractionals I've applied to; I have a CJO from one and would be happy to hang my hat on their peg so to speak.
Not sure why I haven't heard from Flex. I think I am above average with respect to their requirements (121 time, 135 time, military, type ratings, degree, etc., etc.). I hope you hear from them soon! |
Originally Posted by Joebob21
(Post 2920281)
Congratulations on the class date. What are the main factors in your decision to “jump ship” so to speak from the regional world to fractional? What did you not like about the idea of staying 121?
I’ve flown rj’s for over 10 years, doing the hub n spoke flying is getting old. I’m looking for something new and inspiring. Need to find my love and passion for flying again |
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