INDOC
 

Hello guys
Few questions here

How long is normally indoc and where ?
What are the contents or steps of indoc ?
How long is the sim training ?
Thank you

I posted this in the "On Boarding" thread back in January and it is still relevant. I'd suggest taking some time to read through the other threads, as a lot of the questions you may have are already out there. Not trying to be snarky, just a suggestion... ;)

The only thing that really changes from class to class is the length of time off between each phase after both Indoc sections are done.

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The info below continues to change as the number of available training slots are in flux due to the number of new hires coming onboard, so this is just my footprint as an example. Each fleet may also be different as well. I'm on the Challenger and just finished OE in December. Both Indoc classes will be the same for all three fleets though.

Initial Indoc: 4 Days at HQ's in Cleveland (Tue travel, class Wed to Fri, travel home on Friday night) Covers HR stuff, uniform sizing, badges, iPhone issue, CC issue, basic company classes (HR, finance, IT...), etc.

Traveled to Dallas on Sunday afternoon.

Basic Indoc: 7 days at CAE in Dallas (Mon to Sun) Part 135/91K focus (only 6 days for the Phenom crews because day 7 was oceanic plotting for the Challenger and Legacy)

***This is where you might get an extended break. I had 14 days off between the end of Indoc and the start of ground school. The Phenom guys had the same 14 day break. Half my class had a 4 week break due to training slot availability. This was actually good, because I was able to study and have my limitations, memory items, and all of my flows memorized for both seats. Highly recommend buying the cockpit poster (Challenger anyway) that is available at PilotMall.com, the ones they gave us were tiny and hard to see.

Ground School: 8 days (Mon Travel, class Tue to Mon) - Location could be Orlando, Dallas, St Louis, or other training location as assigned by fleet. We had one day off between ground and sims.

Sims: 8 days (Wed to Wed) - Five 4-hour sessions plus mock checkride, FAA checkride, and then one LOFT session.

Initial OE: I was able to complete mine during a single 8 day trip and that included one day of reserve at the hotel with no trips assigned. Some of my classmates had two trips to get theirs done because they were shorter in length.

As far as the break after training, you will get a minimum of 7 days off between the completion of LOFT and the start of OE. I had 7 weeks off until I started OE and some of my classmates had closer to 11 weeks off. It was only supposed to be 2-3 weeks, but instructor availability plays into it and we bumped up against Christmas and prime vacation time. Never asked what the issue was, just enjoyed my time off until called. Your paid the same training pay all the way until OE completion, no matter how much time off you have.

As soon as the paperwork hit the crew scheduling desk that I was OE complete, I had my schedule for the rest of December and January posted before I even got back home from my trip...lol.

Hope that helps.

Cheers!

This has been pretty spot on to how it still is.

Can I ask how much notice they gave you while you were waiting for OE? They say after you initial 7 days off after you finish initial, they want you available for OE within 1-2 days but I am wondering how that would typically play out.

I knew a week out which seems to be the norm, but heard it could be shorter if a slot becomes open suddenly for whatever reason. Notification came via an email from the training department.

Cheers!

Great info!
 

At which of these events do you get to choose which type of schedule (PBS, 8/6, 7/7) you want? Is the pay very different between them?

The details on the schedules are in the offer letter that you receive from HR when they extended the CJO and start date. At least it was in mine and yes, the pay is significantly different.

7/7 is like $56,000/yr, and apparently there is one single pilot out of the 1,130 or so pilots who is on this schedule. Don't do it.

PBS is like $513/day for SIC, comes to just over $100k first year base, but could easily get up to $125k first year with per diem, soft pay/bonus stuff, they say. Plus more if you get upgraded (currently just ~7 months)

I think 8/6 was a salary? Can't remember since I am not interested in it.

Thanks!
 

Just curious- what are the minimum/maximum days you can work on PBS. TIA

4 to 8 days, with 4 days being an absolute fantasy land tidbit for mostly for recruiting. 12 - 18 days a month.

Typically: 5 or 6 days on, 16 days a month.

I typically see 6-8 day tours and 15-18 Days/Mo. Almost 1 year seniority in seat, Didn't start getting awarded 6 day tours until about the 6 month mark.

Yeahhh, I noticed they've change their tone with that 4 day thing the further I get into training.

Well jokes on them: If they lure people in using fantasies of shorter tours and then pull the rug out from under them when training is over, some people will bail and there goes $40,000+ in training costs. And that is completely on Flexjet. Why they aren't just up front about that is beyond me.

4 day runs are absolutely possible, you just have to get senior enough to have them awarded. It also helps if you live in a base that is well served by airlines. If you're going to bail because you're not able to get 4 day lines in your first 6-9 months then this place probably isn't a good fit for you long term anyways. At this point DRL captain is sub 18 months and then as long as your airplane is covered you can work as many 4 days as you want.

Thanks
 

good info. I’m nervous about PBS so considering 8/6. I don’t want to be gone 18 days if I can help it.

I am not planning on bailing - I just mention that because I think Flex does no one any good by stating "crew members bid schedule in 4 day blocks or as many as 8 day blocks with similar times off in-between." in their recruiting material. While technically correct, it is more like a bait and switch if it is not going to be happening for awhile. Particularly if one were to compare Flexjet to Netjets, this apparent option for shorter rotations could make the difference between someone choosing Flexjet over Netjets and their popular 7/7. To a new hire who chose Flexjet, lured in by shorter rotations, now they'll be on longer rotations than most of the Netjets pilots! It would be good to be up front and mention that kind of schedule may only be possible down the road. Heck, Delta could also come out and advertise to new hires that you will "make half a million dollars a year and only fly 5 days a month!" and thats not a technically a lie either - so long as they are referring to their 30+ year senior captains.

As far as DRL goes, I heard from the CP's mouth at orientation that they are wanting DRL pilots flying longer rotations, ie not the 4 day rotations, for obvious reasons. While we are at it, it is also somewhat confusing that DRL staffs 3 captains per aircraft. Split evenly, thats about 10 days a month per captain, right? The CP also said they are expecting pilots to fly 14-16 days a month, which of course makes sense from an efficiency standpoint, but it also brings up questions as to just how the DRL scheduling works. Is it truly up to the three captains, or is there more to it than that? How much flexibility is actually there? It doesn't sound like someone could work, say, 8 days a month (making less $, of course), if that was what they wanted. I know there are floater captains out there, perhaps on reserve, who fill in as needed. I assume these come from DRL teams? But how does that factor into choosing one's own schedule with their team? I know I am putting the cart before the horse here, but I think some transparency with this is useful in terms of helping someone decide if they want to plan to make a career here. Let's be real - one can't be blamed for wanting this transparency with these details when one can go get hired at the majors right now and make way more while working a lot less.

I'm certainly going into this with an open mind and will give it my best - I have been really happy with how they are treating us and I feel really good about the place. It feels "right" so far. I'd happily recommend this place to anyone. All I am saying is that organizations should be very careful with what they advertise so that the company and the hired candidate have the same expectations.

It really is make your own schedule between the three. The flexibility is between you and your other 2 captains, that's it.
The only hard requirements are, 100% coverage of the left seat when the schedule is submitted and no less than 4 day rotations
We have scheduled overlaps of just 1 day up to as much as even 6 days
They don't care how much each of the three captains work. EX: May for us - 1 captain - 16 days, 1 captain - 14 days, 1 captain - 15, June - 1 Captain - 12 days, 1 Captain - 15 days, 1 captain - 14 days
It really is up to you, want to make more, work more, don't care about making more, work less.
We build our schedule, we submit that schedule, they input the schedule. Only time I have ever heard back from them about our schedule was due to a typing error of dates and they saw no overlap, hence no coverage for that day.
Unofficially I have heard that 12 is a minimum in a month, and consistently. So if you only schedule 12 every month and that is your plan to only work 12 every month of the year, and that is because of benefits. Word of mouth is less than wanting to work 12 they then consider you part time.
The floater captains are there only for the purpose of filling in for one of the 3 if 1 is going to be out for an extended period of time - Short term disability

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No one is saying to expect to have to wait 30 years before 4 day rotations are a possibility due to seniority. We're talking maybe 12-18 months *at most* depending on your fleet assignment and if you take upgrades. At this point that's probably a grossly high estimate too, considering DRL CA slots are coming open in that same time frame. I was awarded bids w/ 4 day runs on months 3, 5, and 7 of captain flying (the only months I bid for them). I never bid for them as an FO. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect to have to pay your dues and not get the exact schedule you want immediately after training at any company with a seniority list. If 4 day trips are your goal then you'll get them eventually, you just have to put in the relatively short time to build the seniority to get them.

The majority of the questions you raise here both from a scheduling standpoint and a DRL standpoint are addressed in company documents and manuals. I'd suggest reading the 'How to use PBS Bid System' .pdf, 'Pilot Supplement 2022.08' .pdf and 'Domestic RL Supplement' .pdf as they've all got good and pertinent information to these topics.

Recession
 

Thinking about making the jump to FlexJet, but was wondering how they handled the pandemic. Was anyone furloughed?

No furloughs. The pandemic and how we operated during it is covered ad nauseam in other threads. Some people on the outside didn't like how we did it, but I've yet to fly with someone else who was here during that time who had issues with how we operated.

Fantastic information, this was very helpful and makes the opportunity even more appealing. Thank you very much!

!

Good to go, thanks!

Thank you for the clarification. The reason I bring up questions here on this forum instead of fully trusting the company docs is because I have noticed there seems to be some conflicting information within the organization. In some cases, for any one question, I will find 5 different answers from 3 people and 2 documents. But I will dig into those manuals and documents further. Thanks!

Well sure. That's just one of the flexible parts of Flexjet, obviously.

lol somethin' bout fanatical attention to detail...

I don't think this is talked about much but if you average anything less than 7 day tours PBS or DRL it's going to reduce your bonus $$$$.

It is worth it. Less than 7 day rotations is a big QOL improvement

Oh I definitely agree. I'm just stating it because that fact is conveniently left out when the company advertises shorter tours as an option.

Thank you sir.
 

Thank you for comment.
I heard that Flexjet now hiring into Legacy 450/500, Challenger 300, and Phenom 300.
It means also they hiring the ILC pilot. Right.?
I know ILC Cabin can be only Captain. F/O is unable to join them. Am I right?
I just wonder what is best way for become a ILC Pilot.
Early Become captain(phenom 300) and waiting is better or wait more than got other fleet.?
Thanks.

You have to be invited to interview for ILC. It doesn’t matter what fleet you come from. You have to make yourself known to the ILC community.

Start on the Phenom or Challenger/Praetor SIC, upgrade on one of those airframes.

What are the completive mins to get hired as an FO?
Considering a come back after a long break (8 years).I left a regional back then with just an ATP/CL65 and about 150 hours on the CRJ7/9, 1750 total. Is there a min flight time for say last month/year?
Trying to avoid regionals this time, they're not hiring FOs anyways (or very little).

They are interviewing pilots at the 1500 minimums, some with no jet time so you would be competitive. They will have you do a sim eval so you may want to make sure your instrument skills are current.

Thanks for the feedback, followingdreams!
Definitely I will make sure I am IFR proficient before applying. What equipment do they use for the sim eval? Any sim places to prepare for this?
What would QOL look like for someone living in the DFW area?

I did my interview in July. The sim the used and tend to use a lot is a Challenger 601 all steam gauge, NO flight director or AP. Takeoff, runway heading to 3000’, 200 kts speed and vectors for hand flown ILS. Then V1 cut and your done

Excellent, Diverb .Thanks for the info!

All this, except you can now use the FD in the eval.

Exactly how mine was done. As far as the Sim, its whatever is available to use. Some people got the Lear 45.

For 1500hr no-jet pilots coming in to interview, how exactly do they prep for a sim like that? I'm assuming some have never flown anything that fast, nor have they done a V1 cut.

Some of the 1500hr pilots do have jet time, For those without jet time, they are not looking at you to nail it, they want to see your basic instrument skills are up to par. If I didnt have any jet time I would probably invest in some time in a sim (I saw a television commercial while I was on the road about a "Date Night Flight Sim" experience, not sure where). You will also need to have your ATP/CTP done which gives you some sim time. At least for us, the last day we were asked "what else would you like to try", V1 cuts are not that bad, most people struggle becasue they overthink it. Keep your eyes outside and do what you would normally do, plane going off to the left, add right rudder to stay on the centerline (Hint, you will need most, if not all of the rudder), get the plane under control and rotate.

This is what I did. My ATP/CTP class was a few weeks before my scheduled interview. I knew the v1 cuts would be looked at, so my sim partner and I both asked to do multiple v1 cuts in the free time that was left at the end of the required training. I think it helped a lot.