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INDOC

Old 05-12-2023, 06:39 PM
  #1  
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Default INDOC

Hello guys
Few questions here

How long is normally indoc and where ?
What are the contents or steps of indoc ?
How long is the sim training ?
Thank you
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Old 05-13-2023, 03:53 AM
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I posted this in the "On Boarding" thread back in January and it is still relevant. I'd suggest taking some time to read through the other threads, as a lot of the questions you may have are already out there. Not trying to be snarky, just a suggestion...

The only thing that really changes from class to class is the length of time off between each phase after both Indoc sections are done.

---------------------------

The info below continues to change as the number of available training slots are in flux due to the number of new hires coming onboard, so this is just my footprint as an example. Each fleet may also be different as well. I'm on the Challenger and just finished OE in December. Both Indoc classes will be the same for all three fleets though.

Initial Indoc: 4 Days at HQ's in Cleveland (Tue travel, class Wed to Fri, travel home on Friday night) Covers HR stuff, uniform sizing, badges, iPhone issue, CC issue, basic company classes (HR, finance, IT...), etc.

Traveled to Dallas on Sunday afternoon.

Basic Indoc: 7 days at CAE in Dallas (Mon to Sun) Part 135/91K focus (only 6 days for the Phenom crews because day 7 was oceanic plotting for the Challenger and Legacy)

***This is where you might get an extended break. I had 14 days off between the end of Indoc and the start of ground school. The Phenom guys had the same 14 day break. Half my class had a 4 week break due to training slot availability. This was actually good, because I was able to study and have my limitations, memory items, and all of my flows memorized for both seats. Highly recommend buying the cockpit poster (Challenger anyway) that is available at PilotMall.com, the ones they gave us were tiny and hard to see.

Ground School: 8 days (Mon Travel, class Tue to Mon) - Location could be Orlando, Dallas, St Louis, or other training location as assigned by fleet. We had one day off between ground and sims.

Sims: 8 days (Wed to Wed) - Five 4-hour sessions plus mock checkride, FAA checkride, and then one LOFT session.

Initial OE: I was able to complete mine during a single 8 day trip and that included one day of reserve at the hotel with no trips assigned. Some of my classmates had two trips to get theirs done because they were shorter in length.

As far as the break after training, you will get a minimum of 7 days off between the completion of LOFT and the start of OE. I had 7 weeks off until I started OE and some of my classmates had closer to 11 weeks off. It was only supposed to be 2-3 weeks, but instructor availability plays into it and we bumped up against Christmas and prime vacation time. Never asked what the issue was, just enjoyed my time off until called. Your paid the same training pay all the way until OE completion, no matter how much time off you have.

As soon as the paperwork hit the crew scheduling desk that I was OE complete, I had my schedule for the rest of December and January posted before I even got back home from my trip...lol.

Hope that helps.

Cheers!
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Old 05-13-2023, 04:43 PM
  #3  
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Originally Posted by MtnFlying
I posted this in the "On Boarding" thread back in January and it is still relevant. I'd suggest taking some time to read through the other threads, as a lot of the questions you may have are already out there. Not trying to be snarky, just a suggestion...

The only thing that really changes from class to class is the length of time off between each phase after both Indoc sections are done.

---------------------------

The info below continues to change as the number of available training slots are in flux due to the number of new hires coming onboard, so this is just my footprint as an example. Each fleet may also be different as well. I'm on the Challenger and just finished OE in December. Both Indoc classes will be the same for all three fleets though.

Initial Indoc: 4 Days at HQ's in Cleveland (Tue travel, class Wed to Fri, travel home on Friday night) Covers HR stuff, uniform sizing, badges, iPhone issue, CC issue, basic company classes (HR, finance, IT...), etc.

Traveled to Dallas on Sunday afternoon.

Basic Indoc: 7 days at CAE in Dallas (Mon to Sun) Part 135/91K focus (only 6 days for the Phenom crews because day 7 was oceanic plotting for the Challenger and Legacy)

***This is where you might get an extended break. I had 14 days off between the end of Indoc and the start of ground school. The Phenom guys had the same 14 day break. Half my class had a 4 week break due to training slot availability. This was actually good, because I was able to study and have my limitations, memory items, and all of my flows memorized for both seats. Highly recommend buying the cockpit poster (Challenger anyway) that is available at PilotMall.com, the ones they gave us were tiny and hard to see.

Ground School: 8 days (Mon Travel, class Tue to Mon) - Location could be Orlando, Dallas, St Louis, or other training location as assigned by fleet. We had one day off between ground and sims.

Sims: 8 days (Wed to Wed) - Five 4-hour sessions plus mock checkride, FAA checkride, and then one LOFT session.

Initial OE: I was able to complete mine during a single 8 day trip and that included one day of reserve at the hotel with no trips assigned. Some of my classmates had two trips to get theirs done because they were shorter in length.

As far as the break after training, you will get a minimum of 7 days off between the completion of LOFT and the start of OE. I had 7 weeks off until I started OE and some of my classmates had closer to 11 weeks off. It was only supposed to be 2-3 weeks, but instructor availability plays into it and we bumped up against Christmas and prime vacation time. Never asked what the issue was, just enjoyed my time off until called. Your paid the same training pay all the way until OE completion, no matter how much time off you have.

As soon as the paperwork hit the crew scheduling desk that I was OE complete, I had my schedule for the rest of December and January posted before I even got back home from my trip...lol.

Hope that helps.

Cheers!
This has been pretty spot on to how it still is.

Can I ask how much notice they gave you while you were waiting for OE? They say after you initial 7 days off after you finish initial, they want you available for OE within 1-2 days but I am wondering how that would typically play out.
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Old 05-13-2023, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by C340
This has been pretty spot on to how it still is.

Can I ask how much notice they gave you while you were waiting for OE? They say after you initial 7 days off after you finish initial, they want you available for OE within 1-2 days but I am wondering how that would typically play out.
I knew a week out which seems to be the norm, but heard it could be shorter if a slot becomes open suddenly for whatever reason. Notification came via an email from the training department.

Cheers!
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Old 05-14-2023, 09:08 AM
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Default Great info!

At which of these events do you get to choose which type of schedule (PBS, 8/6, 7/7) you want? Is the pay very different between them?
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Old 05-14-2023, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Artifact
At which of these events do you get to choose which type of schedule (PBS, 8/6, 7/7) you want? Is the pay very different between them?
The details on the schedules are in the offer letter that you receive from HR when they extended the CJO and start date. At least it was in mine and yes, the pay is significantly different.
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Old 05-14-2023, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Artifact
At which of these events do you get to choose which type of schedule (PBS, 8/6, 7/7) you want? Is the pay very different between them?
7/7 is like $56,000/yr, and apparently there is one single pilot out of the 1,130 or so pilots who is on this schedule. Don't do it.

PBS is like $513/day for SIC, comes to just over $100k first year base, but could easily get up to $125k first year with per diem, soft pay/bonus stuff, they say. Plus more if you get upgraded (currently just ~7 months)

I think 8/6 was a salary? Can't remember since I am not interested in it.
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Old 05-14-2023, 08:54 PM
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Default Thanks!

Just curious- what are the minimum/maximum days you can work on PBS. TIA
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Old 05-15-2023, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Artifact
Just curious- what are the minimum/maximum days you can work on PBS. TIA
4 to 8 days, with 4 days being an absolute fantasy land tidbit for mostly for recruiting. 12 - 18 days a month.

Typically: 5 or 6 days on, 16 days a month.
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Old 05-15-2023, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Artifact
Just curious- what are the minimum/maximum days you can work on PBS. TIA
I typically see 6-8 day tours and 15-18 Days/Mo. Almost 1 year seniority in seat, Didn't start getting awarded 6 day tours until about the 6 month mark.
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