Latest Pathways for new entrant
05-09-2017, 04:56 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 736
Latest Pathways for new entrant
I have a friend (43 yrs old) who is in the career switch stage and is interested in flying for a living. I have been out of the loop for quite some time regarding the latest pathway programs in place in order to get him to an airline the quickest. What are the latest options available for someone at 43 yrs old to expedite the process? He lives in the PHX area. Please keep the comments to a reasonable tone. Thanks folks.
05-09-2017, 05:41 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
UAL has a deal with Lufthansa:
U get your CFI, and then apply to the LH flight school in AZ. U fly as Instructor there, until you get your atp mins, then go directly to UAL narrow body fleet, bypassing the regionals.
Many of the regionals/majors (AA does this) have a program where you are put into the system somewhere in flight school, then go to Envoy/PSA/Piedmont, then flow to AA, so you are essentially hired by AA while in flight school. I don't know any of the details of these programs, but they've been posted on these boards...
Namaste...
U get your CFI, and then apply to the LH flight school in AZ. U fly as Instructor there, until you get your atp mins, then go directly to UAL narrow body fleet, bypassing the regionals.
Many of the regionals/majors (AA does this) have a program where you are put into the system somewhere in flight school, then go to Envoy/PSA/Piedmont, then flow to AA, so you are essentially hired by AA while in flight school. I don't know any of the details of these programs, but they've been posted on these boards...
Namaste...
05-09-2017, 06:15 AM
#3
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by atpcliff
UAL has a deal with Lufthansa:
U get your CFI, and then apply to the LH flight school in AZ. U fly as Instructor there, until you get your atp mins, then go directly to UAL narrow body fleet, bypassing the regionals.
Many of the regionals/majors (AA does this) have a program where you are put into the system somewhere in flight school, then go to Envoy/PSA/Piedmont, then flow to AA, so you are essentially hired by AA while in flight school. I don't know any of the details of these programs, but they've been posted on these boards...
Namaste...
U get your CFI, and then apply to the LH flight school in AZ. U fly as Instructor there, until you get your atp mins, then go directly to UAL narrow body fleet, bypassing the regionals.
Many of the regionals/majors (AA does this) have a program where you are put into the system somewhere in flight school, then go to Envoy/PSA/Piedmont, then flow to AA, so you are essentially hired by AA while in flight school. I don't know any of the details of these programs, but they've been posted on these boards...
Namaste...
But I have never heard of a flight school CFI-to-UAL flow system (or any legacy). I'm betting it's more of a preferential interview at a UAX regional....
05-09-2017, 07:17 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: CRJ
Posts: 138
ATCA // CPP / Airline Training Center Arizona
straight to UAL from being a CFI.
before you start instructing you already do your interview with united. 18 month instructing, then off to UAL, you need a few hours of instruction though. Depends if UAL will be hiring though, but you'll be in the pool.
straight to UAL from being a CFI.
before you start instructing you already do your interview with united. 18 month instructing, then off to UAL, you need a few hours of instruction though. Depends if UAL will be hiring though, but you'll be in the pool.
05-10-2017, 10:37 AM
#6
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by Selfmade92
ATCA // CPP / Airline Training Center Arizona
straight to UAL from being a CFI.
before you start instructing you already do your interview with united. 18 month instructing, then off to UAL, you need a few hours of instruction though. Depends if UAL will be hiring though, but you'll be in the pool.
straight to UAL from being a CFI.
before you start instructing you already do your interview with united. 18 month instructing, then off to UAL, you need a few hours of instruction though. Depends if UAL will be hiring though, but you'll be in the pool.
.........
05-10-2017, 01:37 PM
#7
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,008
Remember when pilots were expected to have experience, judgement, etc?
"I need the fastest possible route to an airline cockpit."
"No problem. Get your certification, get a job, gain some experience."
"You dont understand. I'm 43."
"Everyone wants to move their career forward, sir."
"But I'm not like the others. I'm different. I'm 43."
"Everyone else had to struggle and work and gain experience. You will too."
"No. I'm 43. I'm different. I need the fast path."
"Oh. You're 43? Why didn't you say so? You may go straight to the front of the line. Here you go, right in front of the others who have worked for it. Very good. Hang on a tic, and here you are. Widebody seat, keys to the kingdom, and for your trouble, we're advancing you 100 seniority numbers, too. You are, after all, 43."
"I need the fastest possible route to an airline cockpit."
"No problem. Get your certification, get a job, gain some experience."
"You dont understand. I'm 43."
"Everyone wants to move their career forward, sir."
"But I'm not like the others. I'm different. I'm 43."
"Everyone else had to struggle and work and gain experience. You will too."
"No. I'm 43. I'm different. I need the fast path."
"Oh. You're 43? Why didn't you say so? You may go straight to the front of the line. Here you go, right in front of the others who have worked for it. Very good. Hang on a tic, and here you are. Widebody seat, keys to the kingdom, and for your trouble, we're advancing you 100 seniority numbers, too. You are, after all, 43."
05-10-2017, 04:34 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 209
Short story:
Phase 1. Ratings, 2-3 years.
Phase 2. CFI 2-3 years to 1500tt
Phase 3. Commuter/regional 2-5 years.
Phase 4. Career job. So 6 to 11 years to career job.
Long story:
Your friend will need his ratings. Assuming he has none right now that will take about 2 years at a local fbo (pvt,inst,comm,cfi,commel). You indicated he already has a career, good, he works and flies. Nothing else (unless he has a family). That's phase 1.
Phase 2, now he can get paid to build time. Most likely it will be CFIing (or banner, pipe, traffic ect.) with a spattering of right seat charter tossed in. This will be about 2-3 years from 250tt to 1500tt which drops us off at phase 3.
Phase 3, commuter/regional airline time. Assuming the current hiring environment stays the same:
He applies, interviews and fogs a mirror, gets hired and makes it thru training. Now he's climbs the seniority ladder, upgrades, checkairman and applies or flows to a major or hired by an LCC or makes his career at the regional/commuter.
Phase 4. Career job. Whatever floats his boat. Senior at a commuter/regional - fine, LCC - fine, cargo-fine, legacy - fine, charter (125 or 135) or part 91 corp - fine. You get the point.
Depending on how hard he hits it and how lucky he is, it will be between 6 to 10 years to phase 4.
Good luck. Jumping the hoops hasn't changed much, except that there is no or very little 135 cargo time anymore. 15 plus years ago this was a step between phase 2 and phase 3 that lasted about 1 or 2 years depending on the commuter hiring environment. How most of us cut our teeth before going to a commuter prior to the early 2000's. Now it's cfi until 1500tt.
Of course if his last name is Hilton or Kennedy and he can poop cash or he doesn't mind going into debt then he can shorten some of the phases listed above by going to a puppy mill school.
Phase 1. Ratings, 2-3 years.
Phase 2. CFI 2-3 years to 1500tt
Phase 3. Commuter/regional 2-5 years.
Phase 4. Career job. So 6 to 11 years to career job.
Long story:
Your friend will need his ratings. Assuming he has none right now that will take about 2 years at a local fbo (pvt,inst,comm,cfi,commel). You indicated he already has a career, good, he works and flies. Nothing else (unless he has a family). That's phase 1.
Phase 2, now he can get paid to build time. Most likely it will be CFIing (or banner, pipe, traffic ect.) with a spattering of right seat charter tossed in. This will be about 2-3 years from 250tt to 1500tt which drops us off at phase 3.
Phase 3, commuter/regional airline time. Assuming the current hiring environment stays the same:
He applies, interviews and fogs a mirror, gets hired and makes it thru training. Now he's climbs the seniority ladder, upgrades, checkairman and applies or flows to a major or hired by an LCC or makes his career at the regional/commuter.
Phase 4. Career job. Whatever floats his boat. Senior at a commuter/regional - fine, LCC - fine, cargo-fine, legacy - fine, charter (125 or 135) or part 91 corp - fine. You get the point.
Depending on how hard he hits it and how lucky he is, it will be between 6 to 10 years to phase 4.
Good luck. Jumping the hoops hasn't changed much, except that there is no or very little 135 cargo time anymore. 15 plus years ago this was a step between phase 2 and phase 3 that lasted about 1 or 2 years depending on the commuter hiring environment. How most of us cut our teeth before going to a commuter prior to the early 2000's. Now it's cfi until 1500tt.
Of course if his last name is Hilton or Kennedy and he can poop cash or he doesn't mind going into debt then he can shorten some of the phases listed above by going to a puppy mill school.
Last edited by Sam York; 05-10-2017 at 04:55 PM.
05-11-2017, 05:43 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 300
I hate to say it, but ATP changed their program to 9 months which i still think is one of the fastest ways to get your ratings? Not sure what other schools guarantee 9 months. There was a good bit of older people at my location.
05-11-2017, 07:05 AM
#10
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by Subieguy14
I hate to say it, but ATP changed their program to 9 months which i still think is one of the fastest ways to get your ratings?
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