Elite Training Sim. - Save $$$
03-20-2007, 07:28 PM
#1
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Elite Training Sim. - Save $$$
I found an Elite training sim in my area which charges $30/hr. I can log 50 hours towards my commercial (as long as I have a CFI with me). Not only that but you can set it up to fly as a multi-engine (Piper Seminole or Beech Barron) and log multi-engine and instrument hours. If you want to become a commercial airline pilot this is the way to go to log your multi and instrument time. I believe this is the same device that ATP uses to log 50 hours of students' multi time.
03-20-2007, 11:03 PM
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time spent in a simulator or FTD does not count toward your TT, ME, or any other total in your logbook. it's just sim or FTD time (an entirely seperate section of the 8710)
yes, you can substitute 50hrs in an approved FTD or sim for 50hrs toward the requirements in Part 61, but that's all.
yes, you can substitute 50hrs in an approved FTD or sim for 50hrs toward the requirements in Part 61, but that's all.
03-21-2007, 09:03 AM
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"I believe this is the same device that ATP uses to log 50 hours of students' multi time"
This is correct. ATP advertises 190 hours of "multi time" but only 140 hours of that is in a real airplane. 50 of the hours are in a FTD (not sure what kind) and can't be logged as flight time.
This is correct. ATP advertises 190 hours of "multi time" but only 140 hours of that is in a real airplane. 50 of the hours are in a FTD (not sure what kind) and can't be logged as flight time.
03-21-2007, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by btwissel
yes, you can substitute 50hrs in an approved FTD or sim for 50hrs toward the requirements in Part 61, but that's all.
OK... I jumped the gun a little thinking I would log hours this way and save money.
Can you tell me more about substituting the 50 hours in the FTD towards the requirements in Part 61? I'm figuring if I'm not logging hours on the FTD I am probally going to meet the requirements by flying in a real plane.
03-21-2007, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Engineer Pilot
...Can you tell me more about substituting the 50 hours in the FTD towards the requirements in Part 61?...
14 CFR 61.129(i)(1): Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, an applicant...may:
(i) credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane...rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane...category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought;...
As stated above, this is a credit, not flight time, and can only be logged as simulator time and dual received (training time). When the designated examiner sits down to review your logbook for your commercial certificate ride, he'll look for a minimum of 250 hours flight time. If he doesn't find that, he'll then look for up to 50 hours of instruction time in an approved FTD or simulator, signed by the instructor in your logbook (or some other suitable record), to make up the difference.
Note there is no definition anywhere in the FAR's for "total time". It doesn't exist from the FAA's perspective. In fact, in most logbooks, the column we all invariably call "total time" is actually labeled "total duration of flight". And to the FAA, "flight" means just that - in the air in an aircraft of some sort, not in a FTD or simulator that's on the ground.
In 14 CFR Part 1 "flight time" is defined as "pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight...". In Part 61.1(b)(6) "flight training" is defined as "...means that training, other than ground training, received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft."
The closest the FAA gets to "total time" is a definition for "pilot time" in Part 61.1(b)(12) - "Pilot time means that time in which a person - (i) serves as a required pilot flight crewmember; (ii) received training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or (iii) gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device." You could take an empty column in your logbook, label it "pilot time", and record a total of all of your flight, FTD, and sim time as a defacto "total time".
Last edited by WEACLRS; 03-21-2007 at 09:34 PM.
03-23-2007, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by WEACLRS
These are the regulations that are envolved:
14 CFR 61.129(i)(1): Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, an applicant...may:
(i) credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane...rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane...category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought;...
As stated above, this is a credit, not flight time, and can only be logged as simulator time and dual received (training time). When the designated examiner sits down to review your logbook for your commercial certificate ride, he'll look for a minimum of 250 hours flight time. If he doesn't find that, he'll then look for up to 50 hours of instruction time in an approved FTD or simulator, signed by the instructor in your logbook (or some other suitable record), to make up the difference.
Note there is no definition anywhere in the FAR's for "total time". It doesn't exist from the FAA's perspective. In fact, in most logbooks, the column we all invariably call "total time" is actually labeled "total duration of flight". And to the FAA, "flight" means just that - in the air in an aircraft of some sort, not in a FTD or simulator that's on the ground.
In 14 CFR Part 1 "flight time" is defined as "pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight...". In Part 61.1(b)(6) "flight training" is defined as "...means that training, other than ground training, received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft."
The closest the FAA gets to "total time" is a definition for "pilot time" in Part 61.1(b)(12) - "Pilot time means that time in which a person - (i) serves as a required pilot flight crewmember; (ii) received training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or (iii) gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device." You could take an empty column in your logbook, label it "pilot time", and record a total of all of your flight, FTD, and sim time as a defacto "total time".
14 CFR 61.129(i)(1): Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, an applicant...may:
(i) credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane...rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane...category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought;...
As stated above, this is a credit, not flight time, and can only be logged as simulator time and dual received (training time). When the designated examiner sits down to review your logbook for your commercial certificate ride, he'll look for a minimum of 250 hours flight time. If he doesn't find that, he'll then look for up to 50 hours of instruction time in an approved FTD or simulator, signed by the instructor in your logbook (or some other suitable record), to make up the difference.
Note there is no definition anywhere in the FAR's for "total time". It doesn't exist from the FAA's perspective. In fact, in most logbooks, the column we all invariably call "total time" is actually labeled "total duration of flight". And to the FAA, "flight" means just that - in the air in an aircraft of some sort, not in a FTD or simulator that's on the ground.
In 14 CFR Part 1 "flight time" is defined as "pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight...". In Part 61.1(b)(6) "flight training" is defined as "...means that training, other than ground training, received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft."
The closest the FAA gets to "total time" is a definition for "pilot time" in Part 61.1(b)(12) - "Pilot time means that time in which a person - (i) serves as a required pilot flight crewmember; (ii) received training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or (iii) gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device." You could take an empty column in your logbook, label it "pilot time", and record a total of all of your flight, FTD, and sim time as a defacto "total time".
Thanks Buddy... I just opened my FAR/AIM to research this when I saw your post
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