Squawk_5543

I know this may sound crazy but I before I even started my IRA training, I was learning how to read and fly plates, DP's and STARs using MS Flight Simulator. You would be amazed how accurate that program is when it comes to flying IFR. By the time I was into my training, I had already gotten used to the charts and it made things alot easier.

MEMpilot

Yeah Flight Simulator is great for them. I use DPs and SIDS all the time through the FMC. However, I'm flying a 777 normally!

I know I should be practicing with a smaller aircraft, but when you have the option of such a magnificient aircraft, why bother chugging along in a Cessna?

The problem with Flight Simulator is that it doesn't simulate the complexities of ATC and their relation to navigation. To me, this is extremely important. It's easy to use a DP on Flight Sim, but even harder to be waiting for a clearance that could have limitless possibilities. Flight Sim's ATC is so predictable and pretty ridiculous in general. I wish Microsoft would do something about that...

blastboy

Hats off to that! Most of the time I don't even use atc on FS. I just take off in the DC-8, follow the DP, climb enroute, follow the STAR, follow the approach procedures and land. The ATC on FS also seems to decend me to the ILS intercept altitude 20+ MILES OUT! Then take me on this huge arc for vectors to intercept the localizer. LOL! I just chime into center every now and then but for the most part, I ignore ATC on the sim. Do you ever go to flightsim.com?? Lots of great aircraft, panels, sounds, etc.. All free!

cheyennedrvr

Yes, I agree 100%, however when you super high performance C150 won't meet the climb gradient or you have prefered routes avail it seemed easier at the time. I was just giving some options, no offense taken.

Ah yes the kingdom five, I am sure I can do it in my sleep same with the knead five. I mean how silky smooth is ABQ direct ABI knead five.

mistarose

I agree, just dificult since the majority of them are designed for larger, faster aircraft. Not the aircraft typically used as an IFR trainer.

Ewfflyer

Bingo, first thing I thought.

It's not always the CFI's responsibility to identify the students weak points. Also, just because you can pass the test, doesn't mean 100% proficiency, just means you're good enough not to kill yourself for the time being, and you can go wander out and learn more about what you are doing(this applies to IFR or PPL). DP's are a small part of what we do, hence the concentration on them. They are simple in 90% of the cases, just read what it says, and do it!

Now onto practice. Since you mentioned FS, use an appropriate aircraft to replicate what you fly, and go for it. DP's are one of the easier procedures to fly, because you have time to set-up on the ground. This is key, SET IT UP ON THE GROUND!!!! If you are departing a larger airport, and know you're going to get one, get your clearance early, and study it before you even fire up the engine.

One big thing with clearances, is write as they read it to you, use abbreviations/symbols for things. They give you the Memphis 7, or whatever moniker. Just write M-7/Mem-7, something short, then followed by what VOR etc.... Then you can go back after it was read and make it long-hand so you can re-read what you actually wrote.

Ever use CRAFT???? Pre-write in a few things, and if it's what you predicted, you leave it alone, such as "As filed" or your final altitude.

Clearance: Destination/intermediate fix(Don't see these very often)
Route: AF(As filed)/ Mem-7 dyr Direct(or for the unlucky ones, throw some Victor Airways in there)
Altitude: 4-7(4000, expect 7 in 10)
Freq: If given a DP, it's 50% that the freq might not be given, it's on the chart
Transponder: Self-explainatory, eh?

So if I filed direct my destination out of MEM, which would be to the north/northeast, I'd probably plan on the fact I'd get the M-7, especially during peak/day hours. So here's what I'd write down pre-contact to Clearance Delivery

C: Destination
R: A/F-
A: 7
F: 124.15
T: _____

Clearance recieved and I would just add the new stuff behind what I had already written, and you're taken care of. Never be afraid to ask for VOR identifiers for clarification. ATC would rather you ask on the ground than going somewhere wrong in the air.

Here's a fun example:
I went out of JFK once(3am) and was given an ugly clearance, with a DP and VOR/V-A's all the way to my airport(mind you NY-Indiana, at least 500nm+) So with me being /G, I was a little peeved, so I got identifiers for the 9 VORS and airways I'd be using. Of course, I departed, straight climb to 8000, and they asked what heading direct destination was I got a funny reaction from all the controllers until I was 1/2 through PA. I guess they don't do a lot of that out there, hehehe

Of course I can't finish out with saying welcome to the IFR community, and Good Luck on the DP's in the future!!!!!