fatman1683

I'm consciously opening a massive can of worms here, hoping to get a variety of opinions and perspectives.

I'm in my 30s with a degree and a career, and I want to drop everything and switch to flying for a living. I'm looking for the shortest path from zero time to a right seat for a major.

Here's the breakdown I've worked out so far, along with some of the decision points I'm looking at:


1) Initial Training

I will be training basically full-time. The choice here is between a pilot mill like ATP or a career program at someplace like American flyers, and the more traditional FBO route. From what I've read the career programs and ATP pump out perfectly good pilots, so I don't see any serious downside to going with that except maybe cost.


2) Pre-ATPL Time Building

It seems like the big choice here is CFI or Part 135. Schools like ATP will guarantee you a CFI slot, and with the rate at which they spit out CPLs the hours will probably come quickly. However it's all light-aircraft piston time. Trying to get on at PlaneSmart or Ameriflight would give me turbine time, but maybe not as much of it as CFI and probably very little of it PIC (unless their upgrade times are measured in months).


3) Regional

I get it, they all suck in various ways. From the impressions I've been able to gather, it seems like Endeavor is currently at the top of the dung heap with Air Wis a close second, and Mesa firmly occupying the bottom of the pile. Does it even matter which regional I fly for, as long as I live in base? Is the training/job experience about equivalent? Is flow even a thing?

How about the cadet/pipeline programs? Do they really help or are the regionals interviewing everyone with 1500 hours and a pulse?


4) Major (specifically legacy, not LCC)

Similarly to regionals, they all seem to be about the same. Similar equipment, similar pay, similar QoL. The main differentiators seem to be domiciles and benefits. This also ties into the "to flow or not to flow" issue with regionals. Is there a serious choice to be made here?


I've done a lot of research, but I'm hitting the end of what statistics and brochures can tell me. I'd greatly appreciate opinions on these issues from people who have lived it.

Thanks in advance.

Aviator27

I’m in the same boat as you.

Do you already have your PPL? I highly suggest getting your PPL at a FBO before going to ATP or any other “pilot mill”.

fatman1683

I don't yet, but I've got a year at least before I can start training full-time (wife's job, kids' schools, etc.) so I'm going to try to get my PPL in the interim.

daddysocks

From what I have researched the quickest path to the majors from zero time is...

1. Go to an accelerated flight school and knock out your ratings in 6 months to a year
2. Instruct for a year or so to build 1500 hours (ATP is good for this because you can instruct a lot more hours than most other schools)
3. Go to a regional with quick upgrade times and try to get 1000 hours TPIC to be competitive for the majors.

For time building, the quickest way is going to be instructing. Though you may get some turbine time working for the part 135 operator, you will not fly as much as you would as a cfi. Also you have to go through training with the 135 operator which could take months. After all, turbine time is not necessary for the regionals. As for the regionals, some are better than others, but your best bet will be to work at the one with the closest base to you. Once you meet all the qualifications for the majors, it is unlikely you will have much of a choice on where to go. Reason being, it is unlikely to get offers from all of them.

qqwqe

This is very helpful thread, I am in the same boat

rickair7777

All makes sense to me.

For flight schools, do some research, talk to actual students out of earshot of management. Get the real scoop. Be wary... very few students, CFI's, or flight school employees actually know anything about airlines. You can easily tell when a flight school salesman is lying because his lips will be moving.

For regionals, priority should be domicile, ie where you want to live or live near (if that matters at all to you). Avoid bottom feeders, and consider carefully before going to a stagnant regional where upgrade is very lengthy (you might or might not need the TPIC, but why risk it?). Right now TPIC is still a heavily weighted factor, so the sooner you get some the better.

Based on retirements, a normal upper-middle class college grad type of person should be able to get a legacy/SWA job off the street years before AA flow would be available. But if you like a safety cushion, or don't have a squeeky-clean background in all respects, the an AA regional with flow might be the safe bet.

Once you get 1000 TPIC, depending on industry trends and your own whole person profile, you might consider a second tier major. If the big four don't call for some reason, you will be better off at most majors than at any regional. May not want to give up years of seniority holding your breath for big-four.

BigfootCapo

All very sound and spot on advice. The only part I would strongly reiterate on is choosing a regional with a good flow through. If one of the legacy carriers is ultimately your preferred destination, it would behoove you to choose a regional that has a stable flow. In this day and age, the easiest, fastest and most secure path to a legacy carrier is made in this way. Now of course that could all change few years down the road, but why not have it as a backup if you can. What a lot of people will not tell you is that there are a lot of professional pilots who never quite make it to top tier legacy level for one reason or another. Often times this happens even if they do everything right taking into consideration education, experience and other various backgrounds. Some guys just never get that opportunity and it is something you should be aware of. If you work for a company that has a flow, at some point down the line you will probably get that chance. Best of luck to you.

rickair7777

Easy, yes.

Fastest, most certainly not. IIRC flow is pushing ten years right now. Most regionals you can upgrade in two years, and be competitive for big-four in another 2-3 years.

Most secure? Looking good right now, but flow has a TERRIBLE track record and has failed multiple times in the last two decades, including AA flow (ask me how I know). If you're putting all your eggs in one basket, you might well end up an AA regional lifer. For that reason, I'd suggest keeping the logbook up-to-date, and working on that online degree.


I would agree, unless the domiciles are totally not compatible with your life (ex divorced with kids, wife has great job, etc). I would not sign up for years of commuting just for flow when you can get hired OTS sooner anyway.

True. Historically about 30% of civilians made it to majors (maybe 20% to legacies?). But barring a large asteroid impact or WW-III (no, N. Korea does not count), most junior pilots today should have unprecedented opportunity. That's the ONLY reason AA is so generous with flow right now... they hope it will keep their regionals staffed longer, by folks who are content to sit back, relax, and row to the drumbeat for an extra five years in exchange for not having to attend job fairs and fill out apps. And don't forget, if the OTS hiring stops, so does the flow.

Pull and Rotate

I made the switch when I was in my 30's. Looked at the same options as you and decided to do my training while keeping my previous job. Fortunately I worked 12 Hour shifts on a 4 day on and 4 day off rotation so I had plenty of free time. It took a little longer, but I was able to do everything without accumulating any debt.

Learning to fly is initially a frustrating process and many people quit prior to completion of their PPL. As was mentioned earlier, get your PPL prior to making any decisions to quit your current career. Also, before starting any flight training, go to an AME and get a FIRST CLASS FAA MEDICAL. Make sure you do not have any medical condition which would prohibit you from obtaining and keeping a First Class FAA Medical.

I have no regrets on making the change. Enjoy the ride if you choose to do it!

Adlerdriver

I'm trying to pick my words carefully here but sometimes the direct approach works best. I kind of cringe when I hear this quest for advice on shortest/fastest path from 0 to the right seat of a major airline.

Somewhere along that path, you're supposed to develop foundational skills, gain experience in a myriad of subjects and actually become worth a sh!t as a professional pilot. I hate to burst your bubble, but that ain't going to happen in just a few years. Sure, some folks get lucky and min time the whole process. Everyone has a story about someone who showed up on the line in their late 20's and hit the jackpot. We also have lots of stories about men and women who have no business doing this job even though they succeed at getting hired (at least for a while).

The last thing I'd care to hear from someone showing up to work on a crew I'm part of is: "I took the shortest path I could here... less than 5 years ago I didn't even have my PPL". Greaaaaaat.

So, just to end on a positive note. Good luck to you in your training and quest for a job at a major airline. Don't forget to enjoy the journey and get all you can out of it along the way.