Search
Notices
Flight Schools and Training Ratings, building hours, airmanship, CFI topics

Stupid instrument question

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-19-2007, 07:32 PM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
FL600's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: ERJ
Posts: 211
Default Stupid instrument question

Enlighten me please, because my trusty Jepp book is really not right now. How do you determine which direction you hold in? As in inbound toward the fix or outbound from the fix? I get the whole right turn/left turn and different entries, but I just don't get why sometimes you hold toward the fix and other times not -

If the hold is published, I see the arrows and I can figure that out (Thank God!) but unpublished?! Sure, ATC will say "hold west of xyz on the xcv radial or DME" but WHICH FRICKIN WAY and WHY IF I AM INBOUND MIGHT I HAVE TO TURN BACK OUTBOUND?!

I'm obviously missing something very basic here, and I feel like such a dork for asking, but can someone please dumb it down for me?!

Thanks,
MHM
FL600 is offline  
Old 05-19-2007, 08:05 PM
  #2  
APC co-founder
 
HSLD's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Default

Originally Posted by MileHighMama View Post
If the hold is published, I see the arrows and I can figure that out (Thank God!) but unpublished?! Sure, ATC will say "hold west of xyz on the xcv radial or DME" but WHICH FRICKIN WAY and WHY IF I AM INBOUND MIGHT I HAVE TO TURN BACK OUTBOUND?!
I'm sure you'll get several great answers in this thread complete with references, but the short answer is:

Holds terminate at fix inbound and are flown with right turns unless the controller specifically states left turns or the hold is published as a left pattern (and the controller gave a "hold as published" clearance).

Right turns are termed standard patterns, and left turns are termed non-standard. The reason for non-standard (left) patterns are to keep holding aircraft away from terrain, airspace, or other traffic otherwise it's a right pattern.

When you get a holding clearance, the controller will give you a quadrant and radial in the clearance - don't confuse this with standard and non-standard holds. For example "Hold West on the 270 degree radial" is the quadrant and radial, this is given to help the pilot orient where the holding should be conducted.

Standby, someone will be along shortly to straighten me out, in the meantime here are a few photos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holding_%28aviation%29

Last edited by HSLD; 05-20-2007 at 07:03 PM.
HSLD is offline  
Old 05-19-2007, 08:30 PM
  #3  
APC co-founder
 
HSLD's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Default

Originally Posted by AK Hawg View Post
"Sorry boys, I've gotta cancel ... the weather's far too bad to file IFR!"
Hey, if you have the option of flying over the weather, take it!
HSLD is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 10:11 AM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
de727ups's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
Default

You never hold away from a fix, always towards it. An unpublished hold will be on a VOR radial or NDB bearing to or from the station. Radials are always from a VOR. But you can still hold on the VOR radial (or NDB bearing from) but inbound to the fix. Think of the holding radial as a line in space you need to be on. You can either be on the line inbound or outbound, but you would only HOLD inbound on the line, towards the fix.
de727ups is offline  
Old 05-20-2007, 06:51 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
FL600's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: ERJ
Posts: 211
Default

THANK YOU!!!

The light bulb went off and I GET IT!

I appreciate your help!

Thanks again,
MHM
FL600 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
KennyG1700
Flight Schools and Training
40
08-01-2019 12:53 AM
maximilian2
Foreign
26
06-12-2015 04:31 AM
iahflyr
Flight Schools and Training
10
10-18-2006 07:56 PM
turtle
Regional
4
04-09-2006 11:48 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices