How Long to Log 1500 Hours?
 

Almost 40 and debating a career change. Just trying to get a gage for how long it will take to get all the requirements done to get to a regional/corporate job. For those that have completed their 1500 hours how long did it take? If you are a CFI how long did it take? How many hours did you average a week/month? Thanks

When I was a CFI it was possible to log 100 hours/month (or even a little more) with some hustle, assuming the students (and planes) were available. I assume students are available right now, planes might be depend on the operation... the current prices for used ASEL indicate a bit of a shortage.

Hustle would involve flying six days/week, and being available for am, afternoon, and night flights... maybe all three in one day. Career oriented (full time) students usually fly on weekdays, recreational students tend to prefer nights and weekends.

Thanks for the info. So realistically I should plan for about 2 years unless I am to quit/cash out my current job and be a CFI full time.

How much time are you starting with?

If you have a full time job and need still 1000 hours, yeah two years might be about right. That would be hustling when you're not at your day job, so nights and weekends if you're a nine-to-fiver.

I am starting from 0 now. Weighing the costs/time of switching careers and the timeframes associated with them. The 1500 hrs is the big hurdle (other than the cost of flight training) it seems for many aspiring second career pilots, especially when you are pushing 40.

Normally I'd say minimize debt incurred for flight training. But if you're older with some assets, it may make sense to expedite the process even if you have to tap your assets or take a loan.

Given the current hiring wave, I'd lean even more towards getting on with it and getting a seniority number at a major while the gettin's good. This is a frankly unprecedented opportunity, the likes of which have not been seen for about 60 years. And won't be seen again for another 60 years, if ever.

At this point in time, if you're going to do it, get on with it asap.

In 2018, I quit my job and devoted full time to training. It took me a little under 9 months to go from 0 to CFI and I spent 11 months as a CFI working 6-7 days a week 8-12 hours a day. It cost me $45k to get from 0 to CFI employing as many cost saving methods as I had access to i.e. splitting time, renting a cheaper 152 for straight time building etc.

If you're actually in MN then there are many good CFI'ing gigs in the Twin Cities, and not just at FCM/STP too.

CFI check ride in late 1995 in the northeast, couldn't find a job.
Moved to SoCal, started teaching in spring of 1996.
I hit 1500 TT in September 2000, ATP check ride in October.

Probably could've been quicker, but I had a side hustle as a server, which paid waaaaay more than teaching, so I didn't have to kill myself with flying.

If you know you will be building hundreds of hours, buying a 152/172 or a simple experimental would be the cheapest method.

dera did that. I think that's his username. Bought a 152 and flew the crap out of it and then sold it for i think at least what he paid for it if not more. Flying a 747 for Atlas now I think.

How much did the Cessna cost?

Teaching as a CFI or any other entry level flying job will teach you much more then drilling holes with your own airplane.
Not to mention all the potential drama with airplane ownership.
Realistically it’s 2 years after your CPL that you’ll hit 1500 hrs.
0-CFI will take 6-9 months after which you still have another 1200 to go.

I think the CFI route is the best way to go. Enjoy the ride and not rush it. I wish I was 22 doing this and not 40

I think it was around 25k. He just got his time up to about I think 800 hours to be hireable. Sold it and got a job with a sight seeing outfit in the Grand Canyon, and just on from there.

Hey, I am 50, and I am just starting. I have 2 hours so far!

Are you able to do the accelerated path? I am trying to figure out a way to get my certs and 1500 hrs relatively quickly (3 years) while still working my 9-5 with a toddler ha

First, the good news. Being an airline pilot pays just as well as they all say it does. As a regional captain, I'm taking home over 10 grand a month, and that's after taxes, maxing my 401k, etc, with pilots projected to be in even more short supply over the next 10ish years. The legacies are hiring any regional captain who is willing to put their apps in, and captains I flew with last year in the regionals are captains on 737s or FOs on Dreamliners now, making a quarter million a year with an average of 15 days off each month, and 20 nights in their own beds.

The bad news is that getting to 1500 hours in 2 years while working full-time is unrealistic. This is like getting a STEM graduate degree, followed by an internship, both in terms of money and time commitment. A more realistic timeline is probably 5ish years, and it'll be a grind the whole time where you can't over-commit to family or your other job. Also, if you live in a northern latitude, you'll get a lot less flying in the winter because of weather and icing.

If there's a really good flight school near you that routinely trains airline pilots, then I'd go there and 'pay as you go' to incur less debt while continuing to work. If the only flight schools are mom-and-pop schools that train weekend hobby flyers, then I'd recommend quitting your job and biting the bullet at an airline focused degree-mill-type school like ATP. I went the military route, but I fly with a lot of ATP grads, and what I hear is that it's a lot like going to a grad school where the TAs do all the teaching. Some are good, some don't care at all, but it's on you to succeed and they give you the tools to get there, but there aren't a lot of safety nets if you get a bad instructor. I've heard good things about United's Aviate program, but that requires you to quit your job and move to AZ.

After getting your ratings, I'd highly recommend quitting your job altogether and becoming a full-time instructor. Part-time instructors just don't log much time. Plus, schools tend to feed their full-time instructors students first, then fill in the odds and ends with part-timers. For every hour you fly there's at least an hour of ground training, paperwork, pre-flighting, prepping, etc. Unless you're working for a program like ATP, it's unlikely you'll taxi back to the FBO, one student will hop out and another will hop in. You'll learn a lot as a CFI in the first 200 or so hours, then things will become very mundane. Luckily, CFIing is a great way to network with a lot of operations in your local area, so you can maybe jump from CFIing to a better-paying job flying pipeline, unscheduled air cargo in a twin, ferrying airplanes, etc where a 10-hour day means close to 10 hours of flight time and it's way less mentally engaging than trying to sort through a student's psyche to find the best way to teach them to get past their many hang-ups.

Good luck

Great advice thanks! Do you plan on going to the majors, or do you like your seniority as a regional captain?

From what I've heard, at my age, it's probably better for me to stay with the regionals and accumulate my seniority than to transfer to a major and start the process over.

By the time I start flying as an ATP, I'll be 52-53 years old. I don't have time to shift around. Plus, SkyWest and many other regionals just bumped up their compensation and benefits significantly, giving me less incentive to transfer to a major.

How much time to log 1,500 hours? Depends on the pen and whether your hand cramps up, but give it an hour and a half.

To fly all 1,500 hour, however, takes 1,500 hours.

Which is heavier: a pound of feathers, or a pound of lead?

With air resistance at sea level, I'd rather get hit by a pound of feathers than lead.

You may have missed the point.

I paid right at 20k for it. It cost me $54/hr to fly it including every single thing I did to it (some upgrades, basic maintenance, fuel, FBO fees, profit when sold and so on). Sold it for a few k more than what I paid for it. Market is different today though but a well looked after 150 will not depreciate over 500-700 hours. Owning your own plane means you KNOW you will fly 100 hours a month if you want.

If you jump in head first, you can do zero to a flying job in 6 months, and zero to ATP in a year.

The math works on that... assuming that you have no big unplanned mx expenses. So there's risk.

Or if you plan to just keep the plane long-term anyway.

In this climate I would not hesitate for a second to go to a legacy or LCC at age 55... guys with 20+ years seniority are doing that as we speak. At AA, UA and to a lesser degree DL, there are so many retirements that your seniority progression will allow your QOL to beat the regionals in short order (maybe even on day one). Only exception might be if you live in a small town where the regional is the only local option, or reasonable commute.

Also regionals are a poop show, and getting worse... those who stay will get worked like dogs, jerked around, and maybe liquidated. Get in, get your time, and hope like hell to get out before something bad happens.

Alternatively you could look at non-airline sectors such as ACMI or fractionals if you're open to varied lifestyles and schedules. Still probably need 1000 turbine hours at the regionals to be competitive and have options.

If you’d gotten your CFI you would have been paid $25+/hr instead of paying $54.
zero to ATP in 12 months I call bs on that.
Average of 4hrs a day means 8hrs/day for every day you couldn’t fly and 12hrs/day for every two days you couldn’t fly.
Not only is that irresponsible you’re just droning along. Even banner towing is more useful than that.

Definitely going to the majors. Unprecedented movement and retirements over the next 15ish years means that I'll be a captain with a great line in the domicile of my choice by the time the music stops again (I like to leave things vague on the interwebs). Also, the pay is great right now at the regionals, but after 2 years I'll be making more with more days off at a major, as an FO, and the top end is significantly higher. Plus, a major might get reorganized in bankruptcy or merged with another airline, but it'll never cease to exist, so one way or another, I'll always be able to carry that seniority with me. The same can't be said about any regional; just look at Express Jet. Right now there's a good case to stay at a regional vs a low-cost carrier because the regionals generally pay more, although the LCCs have a much better quality of life and upgrade time is so slow at single-fleet carriers, but the regionals can't compare to the legacies/UPS/FEDEX. With the number of retirements coming, even for someone in their 50s, in most cases, they could be either a senior line holder as an FO or a captain with a pretty decent line in most domiciles, and still have years left. There're guys upgrading to captain in junior domiciles (NYC, LAX, etc) in less than a year at Delta and guys going straight to wide bodies out of training at United, although they'll likely spend a few years on reserve. As a general rule of thumb, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, if you're in the bottom third of your equipment/seat in your domicile, you can expect to be on reserve. Reserve is much better at a legacy than at a regional, but the best QoL is with a line. With reserve, you're on-call to pick up open flying and sick call-outs, with call-out periods ranging from 12+ hours (long call at home for a commuter) to 3 hours (short call, should be at a crash pad or in the domicile) to airport standby. If you live in your domicile, reserve can actually be a pretty good deal.

Thanks for all the great info. I should budget 3 years to finish all the prerequisite flying before getting to regionals/LCC's. It seems daunting and a long way away but I guess if it wasn't hard everyone would do it. I am planning on selling my shares of family business to get me by the 3 years with same or similar quality of life until I can get to the regionals.

You can call bs as much as you want, doesn't change the facts.

12 hours a day was the goal. 15-16 days a month. It wasn't that bad. Pick a destination, choose your $100 burger joint, fly. And sometimes do longer trips to keep things interesting. I flew everywhere from southern California to Key West in it.

Getting your CFI rating takes away time from hour building. Not the fastest way. Requires solid finances to start though.

I never said its fun, or smart, or useful. I just said it's possible. It's up to you if it's the best way, for you.

I did it in 18 months, but I stopped hour building at 800 and got a 135 job. Was on track to hit 1500 in 10 months at that point.

I’m debating buying a plane and doing this but I’m worried about not being able to get a job due to not having prior experience. Was it difficult to find a job without experience?

Would prefer to go straight to the regionals instead of a 135 job.

In this climate anyone with 1450 hours, from any source, and no major felonies can get hired by the regionals.

...And if that doesn't make ya wanna ride on a regional, nothing will.

…..and pass a 121 course of training with 1000hrs in a 1969 Cherokee 140…..

As others have pointed out I’m in a similar boat, 40 with a family. Have the GI bill and debating going through Liberty and the slow pace or use GI bill for Pray aviation and using their accelerated courses. Could finish ratings faster, but then again no RATP at the end. Or could use GI bill for Instrument through Liberty and then pay for commercial hours out out pocket and find a path from there. So many ways it seems to get ratings, just hate being 1.5 hrs from any type of instruction at an airport.

Difference between R-ATP and ATP is 250 hrs.
Thats 2-3 months as a CFI or any other entry level job in aviation.
Use the GI Bill for anything after PPL including CFI/CFII

So you’re saying go to the university program instead of wasting Gi bill for one rating every 12 months and then paying out of pocket for ratings and building hours for commercial? I’ve saw through Liberty and the flight school they use in TX that you can get Instrument and Commercial probably knocked out in one year. And then around another 6 months or so for everything else. Of course lots of people here just split time building hours, but as you stated not sure if that’s the best way to be prepared for any training down the road.

I'm currently a Liberty student working on my commercial. Did my PPL on my own last fall, and started instrument in January. Commercial took me Summer and Fall semester to complete.
Once I get my CMEL, I plan on time-building to 1,000 hours for my restricted. Personally, I don't think I will be any less prepared than an instructor when it comes to entering the 121 world. Instead of flying in the same practice area with students at the controls, i'll be flying to different environments with a co-pilot utilizing CRM.
Most regionals utizile an AQP training designed to get you through training. Obviously that doesn't mean it's going to be a walk in the park, but if you show up, study and give it your all. You should pass.
If you have any questions on Liberty, feel free to shoot me a message.

No I’m saying the exact opposite.
The GI Bill should pay 60-70%(?) of every rating and certificate after the Private.
I think the R-ATP is overrated as the difference in time (2-3 months) is insignificant.
Do the Private as cheaply as you can then use the GI-bill.
Unless I’m misunderstanding what you are trying to do.

Do you plan going all the way through MEI? I’ve read the program Instrument to MEI takes about 2 years. Of course I don’t even know if CFI-I or MEI is required to graduate and complete the program. I’ve heard of people using Liberty for Instrument and commercial, then moving somewhere else to knock out multi and Cfi since it might can be completed elsewhere outside a 141 program.