Originally Posted by JohnBurke

That is not a standard practice, and it's a big, red flag. Avoid that operation. Requesting money up front is one thing; making it non-refundable is unacceptable. and serves as a warning. Don't go there.

Don't go to any school until you've researched it, spoken with students and ex-students, and have visited to see the condition of the facilities and the aircraft.

Originally Posted by squidler4

I have my PPL and am looking at attending an accelerated flight school. One of the schools I have looked at requires a non refundable deposit to hold a slot for a particular start date in the school (understandable) and then full payment about 6-7 weeks prior to the start of the school. I have private financing so I would be looking at getting the cash price for the school.

Is this standard practice to require payment in full several weeks prior to the start of the school? There is a partial refund policy but it is very restrictive. This seems like a lot of money ($85k) to pay upfront.

Thanks

Originally Posted by FlyBright

Refunds: used aircraft, instructor, and simulator is non-refundable, for obvious reasons.
-Example: If a student abandons the program after being disciplined for violating a school policy or FAR (such as filming themselves on student-solo flying through clouds and posting it to social media) we won't refund anything.
-Example: If a student needs to leave for legitimate reasons, we usually refund 90-100% of what is remaning on account, and we absorb the loss on our operations until we backfill that program. Instructors are hurt too when a student leaves.
-Example: When COVID happened, nearly everyone who did pay-as-you-go, but prepaid for discounts, asked for their money on account back (which was technically non-refundable) and I gave it back to them. They had benefited from discounts on all their used time but didn't uphold their end of the bargain by using it all. This is when I ended discounts for pre-paying for pay-as-you-go students because "non-refundable" clauses are not understood, nor did I want to enforce them. During COVID, we had commercial track students who were still flying and they were enough to keep food on the table for my instructors, which was my main concern. I do recall, to a limited degree, having to get instructors office work and/or cleaning planes and such to keep them paid, so I was both losing "non-refundable" (which I refunded) money on account while having to pay instructors for unneeded work to keep them fed. So now, pre-paying (in-full or partially, depending on program timeline/size) is only for accelerated students who are booking the plane/instructor/simulator a lot.

Originally Posted by FlyBright

Thorough explanation from a 4,500 hr dual Gold Seal CFI, 141-Chief, and 12-years full-time flight school operator (universities, colleges, and private):

We do pay-as-you-go, partial payments, and fully pre-paid. Accelerated programs are often misunderstood, and if they're run appropriately by the school, you can understand why 30-50% payments up front are often required.

At FlyBright Pilot Academy we require an initial payment 3 weeks before starting for accelerated programs, when we begin blocking out the schedule for someone. Full accelerated programs are divided between multiple payments based on attaining certificates or exhausting funds for a course. Accelerated "a-la-carte" programs (such as PPL only) are due 100% up-front but for FAA minimums only, and beyond FAA minimums is paid by the hour after each lesson. Keep in mind, such "a-la-carte" accelerated programs may last only 2-4 weeks, which is why they're prepaid. Our accelerated students don't have an issue with the payment schedule, in fact, they're often trying to get the bank to pay faster to avoid training delays because they fly so much, or they wire money ahead of schedule to ensure it hits in time.

We support "pay-as-you-go" students as well, who can swipe their credit card at the end of each lesson, but they're only doing 1-3 lessons per week, unlike accelerated students who do 5-10 lessons/week (depending on their personal abilities and phase of training, such as crew-cross country is a lot of flying). Basically, in accelerated programs, funds evaporate so quickly and the plane/instructor/simulator is heavily booked that a two-way committment is needed. If you're ever a CFI, you will understand their perspective as well when a student's committment directly correlates to making their loan payments, rent, grocery bills, and career advancement. Definitely do some pay-as-you-go training before committing to an accelerated program, and make sure you're ready to exercise work-ethic, accountability, and responsiblity to succeed in that program. Dropping out, or being kicked out (by unethical schools) for being a slow learner, is the root concern, rather than refund policies, so vet your prospective schools well.

Why do we require payments in this manner for accelerated students? Because we enroll only ~4 full-time accelerated students per airplane and we build their schedules in advance to ensure we can uphold our end of the bargain. Committment and expectations goes both ways. A good school will ensure adequate aircraft and instructors to support your accelerated program; therefore, your seat is taken whether you finish the program or not, much like season sport tickets or how any university/college charges. We stopped enrollments for about 6 months in 2024 because we were at capacity; this is us sticking by our committment to students who pre-paid, and because of this, we didn't have people dropping out either, so our operations stayed busy/max-capacity until graduations and added aircraft deliveries.

It is not possible for pay-as-you-go only operation to forecast flight-time/enrollments appropriately, and therefore, such schools take every student they can get and their students are fighting over flight time. The unsteady schedules, and lack of instrument and mult time, also cause more CFI turnover in these operations. Yes, some (most probably) accelerated pre-paid schools over enroll too. All of our single engine planes (Piper P100is'/Archers and Evektor Harmonys) are year 2020 or newer, and TAA, and all our Seminoles are 2002 or newer, so we also only invest in safe modern planes to reduce maintenance delays, but with this comes higher financial overheads on our end. Banks also assess our financials/enrollments for funding our large aircraft orders, which is another reason many other schools can't get nice safe modern aircraft. This is why you see operations that are mainly just pay-as-you-go only using 60 year old planes and not retaining instructors and students long-term, or getting financing, airline partners, collegiate partners, etc.

Refunds: used aircraft, instructor, and simulator is non-refundable, for obvious reasons.
-Example: If a student abandons the program after being disciplined for violating a school policy or FAR (such as filming themselves on student-solo flying through clouds and posting it to social media) we won't refund anything.
-Example: If a student needs to leave for legitimate reasons, we usually refund 90-100% of what is remaning on account, and we absorb the loss on our operations until we backfill that program. Instructors are hurt too when a student leaves.
-Example: When COVID happened, nearly everyone who did pay-as-you-go, but prepaid for discounts, asked for their money on account back (which was technically non-refundable) and I gave it back to them. They had benefited from discounts on all their used time but didn't uphold their end of the bargain by using it all. This is when I ended discounts for pre-paying for pay-as-you-go students because "non-refundable" clauses are not understood, nor did I want to enforce them. During COVID, we had commercial track students who were still flying and they were enough to keep food on the table for my instructors, which was my main concern. I do recall, to a limited degree, having to get instructors office work and/or cleaning planes and such to keep them paid, so I was both losing "non-refundable" (which I refunded) money on account while having to pay instructors for unneeded work to keep them fed. So now, pre-paying (in-full or partially, depending on program timeline/size) is only for accelerated students who are booking the plane/instructor/simulator a lot.

Yes, there are many schools that abuse such payments and refund policies, but good schools like us need a financial committment from accelerated students in order to properly forcast operations and fund the overhead they're committing to use to ensure we can uphold our end of the bargain. When our students are averaging 43 hrs flight time per month, plus ground school and simulator, it is detrimental if one decides to leave, especially because we don't over enroll students to backfill dropouts quickly. However, because we maintain about 1 plane per instructor and only ~4 fulltime students per plane, we see both instructors and students sticking around with us far better than other schools. Also, our leadership are true educators; we do not terminate hard-to-learn students or create an exhausting environment to promote dropouts, unlike many other accelerated schools. In fact, we have a internal mentorship program for different phase students to help one another and a professional pilot mentors that our CFI students get paired with to learn about career paths and professional pilot traits. We have multiple several thousand hour dual full-time career-instructors salaried on staff and all our administrators are even pilots. Again, pay-as-you-go at the end of each lesson is allowed with us, but those are people only doing 1-3 lessons/week. Our PPL-MEI program is 1/4 the price of a 4-year university and $20k-30k less than other accelerated schools, with more flight time, newer planes, better instructors, and an incredible pathway to a major airline at just 1,500 hours; these are benefits that come with a professionally run flight school, but certain policies (like payments and refunds) reflect it.

Payment schedule, refund policies, price, and advertised timelines are all factors to consider when picking a school. However, looking at the school's leadership experience and passion, career opportunities, ethics and morals, career preperation beyond just certs/ratings, etc. are often overlooked by students. At the end of the day, if each party keeps their end of the bargain, refund policies and payment schedules should be irrelevant, aside from family emergencies or health issues where the school's ethics will determine going beyond written refund policies. Make sure to read fine-print of banks/loans too. From a school's perspective, some banks make schools responsbile for a percentage of the student's loan if they default, further helping you understand why some schools have certain refund policies.

I hope this helped. I think dropping out, or being kicked out for unjust reasons, should be your root concern, so make sure flight training is right for you first. Do 10+ hours of flight training pay-as-you-go, get the FAA written done, and volunteer at some aviation events (like airshows, fly in breakfasts, etc) to meet other pilots to see if this career is right for you. If you already have your PPL, then find an ethical school that won't kick you out for bogus reasons and be ready to put a lot of hours in with an accelerated program, but prepaying (in-full or partial depeding on timeline and program) will get you into a professional accelerated school which offers airline partners, optional degree programs, financing, housing, modern airplanes, full-time professional instructors and leadership, etc. There is a lot to discuss and research when picking the best school for you. Find one that is transparant and willing to converse with you and can answer your questions.