Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Flight Schools and Training
Logging IFR currency in a simulator >

Logging IFR currency in a simulator

Notices
Flight Schools and Training Ratings, building hours, airmanship, CFI topics

Logging IFR currency in a simulator

Old 07-22-2007, 04:39 AM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
ConnectionPilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: CA
Posts: 526
Default Logging IFR currency in a simulator

So I've past the 6 months for my currency, so I have another 6 months before an IPC. 1. Can I get in a simulator to get those approaches and 2. Does it have to be done with a CFII in a simulator?
ConnectionPilot is offline  
Old 07-22-2007, 05:59 AM
  #2  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 30,303
Default

Originally Posted by ConnectionPilot View Post
So I've past the 6 months for my currency, so I have another 6 months before an IPC. 1. Can I get in a simulator to get those approaches and 2. Does it have to be done with a CFII in a simulator?
Yes, you can do it in a sim or approved FTD. If you let it go long enough to require an IPC, you will probably need a real airplane (unless you have free access to a level D sim).

Simulator time, by definition, requires the presence of an appropriate instructor. There is no such thing as solo sim time. For almost all instrument work the instructor must be a CFII, and he will need to sign your logbook for it to count.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 02-19-2011, 03:32 PM
  #3  
New Hire
 
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 1
Default

I recently received this regarding the need to have an instructor present on the simulator. Do you have any comments?

The following is a recent notice from Lance Nuckolls of the FAA Office of Aviation Safety addressing use of flight simulators.
What is particularly interesting is the part where he states that a authorized instructor is not required to be present when a pilot is logging time to maintain instrument recency experience.

************************************************** ********************************

Pursuant to our conversation this morning regarding the authorized (Approved) use of a Basic Aviation Training Devices (BATD) and an Advanced

Aviation Training Device (AATD):



Approved Uses-

As stated in AC 61-136, BATDs and AATDs are approved for use in accordance with 14 CFR section () 61.4(c). In essence, 61.4(c) states that the

Administrator may approve a device, other than a flight simulator or flight training device, for specific purposes. BATDs and AATDs are essentially

devices approved by the Administrator for specific purposes by way of a Letter or Approval/Authorization (LOA). Therefore, 61.4(c) and the LOA

are the regulatory basis for the authorized use of a BATD or an AATD.



Authorized Flight Instructor-

An authorized flight instructor only needs to be present and certify the use of a BATD or an AATD when the time being logged is for training (instruction) towards a pilot certificate or rating. 14 CFR 61.51(g)(4) states- "A person can use time in a flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device for acquiring instrument aeronautical experience for a pilot certificate, rating, or instrument recency experience, provided an authorized instructor is present to observe that time and signs the person's logbook or training record to verify the time and the content of the training session." The operative term is "training session". Therefore, if a person is logging the time and experience necessary to maintain instrument recency experience [ 61.57(c)(2)] and is not applying that time and experience towards a pilot certificate of rating, then an authorized instructor is not required to be present and certify same. The preamble to the August 2009 Part 61 Final Rule states-"An authorized instructor (See 61.1(b)(2)) must be present in the FS, FTD, or ATD when instrument training time is logged for training and aeronautical experience for meeting the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review (See 61.51(a)). The instructor must sign the person's logbook verifying training time and session content.



That being said... as stated above, approved uses for a BATD and an AATD are governed by 61.4(c) and the LOA. The LOA states that an authorized

instructor must certify the instructional use. Simply satisfying the requirements of 61.57(c)(2) is not considered instructional use, therefore an authorized instructor does not need to be present.



I hope that this provides the clarity you are seeking.



Regards,



Lance



R. Lance Nuckolls

Aviation Safety Inspector - Flight Operations

FAA Office of Aviation Safety

General Aviation & Commercial Division

Certification and General Aviation Operations Branch, AFS-810

202-267-9374

202-267-5094 (fax)
jspudich is offline  
Old 02-19-2011, 05:07 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
hc0fitted's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 298
Default

If you can, do your IR Currency in a FTD you will be good for another 6 months. If you do it in a AATD you will only be good for 2 months, and you have to spend a minimum of 3 hours on top of the approaches and hold.
hc0fitted is offline  
Old 02-20-2011, 06:57 AM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 826
Default

Originally Posted by jspudich View Post
I recently received this regarding the need to have an instructor present on the simulator. Do you have any comments?
The October 2009 Part 61 revision was to have done this - no CFI for currency.The explanatory material in the Final Rule says it does.

But the language of the regulation does NOT say that. I and some others noticed the discrepancy shortly after the Final Rule was published. I wrote to John Lynch, who was with FAA for many years and one of the primary authors of the revised rule, who confirmed that this was what they meant to do.

Unfortunately, they didn't. And the FAA Chief counsel said so:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...0/Keller-1.pdf

IOW, depending on how old your letter is, at least until the Chief Counsel's office and Flight Standards get together on this, the regulation and the Chief Counsel both say a CFI needs to be present in order to log anything in a simulator.
NoyGonnaDoIt is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ConnectionPilot
Flight Schools and Training
11
07-11-2008 12:08 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread