Being a flight instructor - question
08-12-2007, 08:02 AM
#1
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Being a flight instructor - question
Would love to hear from people that instruct, or have instructed in the past. I would like to advance through my ratings, and have read many opinions here about the value of instructing and I believe, for myself, that I would benefit from this step in a career. That said, I also expressed in a previous post that I was VERY concerned about my ability to actually teach someone from the start - a primary student.
Is it "ok" to skip the primary students altogether, and teach multi (i know - hard to skip, but assume I could do this)? Could I teach just teach the advanced stuff (instrument, multi, commercial) and still get the desired "learning" that takes place in an instruction job, or is instructing primary students a valuable step?
Thanks - particularly looking for USMC's thoughts as he always has great input. Thanks!
Is it "ok" to skip the primary students altogether, and teach multi (i know - hard to skip, but assume I could do this)? Could I teach just teach the advanced stuff (instrument, multi, commercial) and still get the desired "learning" that takes place in an instruction job, or is instructing primary students a valuable step?
Thanks - particularly looking for USMC's thoughts as he always has great input. Thanks!
08-12-2007, 08:32 AM
#2
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Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
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Once you do the training and have the experience, you'll be able to teach primary. It's no big deal.
If you could figure out a way to skip primary, then I guess it's okay. You'll be missing out on one of the coolest things about flight training, but it's your call. Like I said, there's no reg that says you have to do it. If you can figure a way, then more power to you.
If you could figure out a way to skip primary, then I guess it's okay. You'll be missing out on one of the coolest things about flight training, but it's your call. Like I said, there's no reg that says you have to do it. If you can figure a way, then more power to you.
08-12-2007, 08:39 AM
#3
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I have heard people state "you learn incredible amounts instructing"...but what specifically did you find you improved upon because of instructing?
Also - do instructors make better airline pilots? My hypothesis is that Instruction given is probably a huge benefit to understanding and using CRM in a postive way - is this correct?
Also - do instructors make better airline pilots? My hypothesis is that Instruction given is probably a huge benefit to understanding and using CRM in a postive way - is this correct?
08-12-2007, 08:57 AM
#4
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Once you have someone in the left seat, you really have to have a good understanding of the subject. This includes not only being able to instruct the student on proper procedure, but also the theory behind it - what makes the airplane fly? You'll realize with time, that you don't just recite meanings...you actually understand them. You'll not just land an airplane, you'll really understand why we do the things we do during landing. Also, you get to see others mistakes. As a student, they are going to make mistakes...it's your job to really focus in on them and help to improve them. With time, it also dramatically increases your confidence. Your no longer the student, your the instructor. That student relies on you to help him/her become the best pilot they can. They are and will ask you questions that you haven't the slightest idea of, especially at first...and you'll realize quick just how little you really do know. lol. But, it's how you respond that determines what kinda CFI you will be. Make some crap up, and you'll be crap...if you'll be honest, and go look up the answer then you'll both benefit. You have to stay on top of your game and multi-task. You'll get real good at it fast.
And no ones going to make you teach a primary student. I don't. It would be extremely rewarding to have a student solo for the first time...but it's just not my cup of tea for my own reasons. Everyone has their reasons for CFIing - whether it's a full time gig, a part time job to help pay the bills until a regional, or an evil time builder who doesn't care at all.
As for the airlines, couldn't help you...no personal interest in the airlines.
And no ones going to make you teach a primary student. I don't. It would be extremely rewarding to have a student solo for the first time...but it's just not my cup of tea for my own reasons. Everyone has their reasons for CFIing - whether it's a full time gig, a part time job to help pay the bills until a regional, or an evil time builder who doesn't care at all.
As for the airlines, couldn't help you...no personal interest in the airlines.
08-12-2007, 09:12 AM
#5
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The biggest thing I learned was being PIC. You have to decide when they're doing the right thing, if they're going to continue doing the right thing. Do all of this while anticipating their next move, ATC's next move, what sort of dangers it could put you into, and when to step in. I think you learn more as an instructor than you ever will as a student.
With all of that, I enjoyed primary students the most. Unless you have somebody with an incredibly hazardous attitude, they don't do as much stupid stuff that can kill you because they don't know enough about it yet. My worst experiences as an instructor both came while working with students on an instrument rating. They had bad habits from past instructors and in one case I stopped and went back to basic fundamental stuff because his airmanship was so poor.
At 80 hours we think we know everything. By the time I had my CFI at 260 hours I was amazed at how much I didn't know. At 500 hours it was amazing how much more I knew than I did at 250, but how much I still had to learn. At 1000, you get the idea. We'll see how I feel at 5000
With all of that, I enjoyed primary students the most. Unless you have somebody with an incredibly hazardous attitude, they don't do as much stupid stuff that can kill you because they don't know enough about it yet. My worst experiences as an instructor both came while working with students on an instrument rating. They had bad habits from past instructors and in one case I stopped and went back to basic fundamental stuff because his airmanship was so poor.
At 80 hours we think we know everything. By the time I had my CFI at 260 hours I was amazed at how much I didn't know. At 500 hours it was amazing how much more I knew than I did at 250, but how much I still had to learn. At 1000, you get the idea. We'll see how I feel at 5000
08-12-2007, 02:32 PM
#8
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Position: FOD
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Originally Posted by planecrazyjenn
Once you have someone in the left seat, you really have to have a good understanding of the subject. This includes not only being able to instruct the student on proper procedure, but also the theory behind it - what makes the airplane fly? You'll realize with time, that you don't just recite meanings...you actually understand them. You'll not just land an airplane, you'll really understand why we do the things we do during landing. Also, you get to see others mistakes. As a student, they are going to make mistakes...it's your job to really focus in on them and help to improve them. With time, it also dramatically increases your confidence. Your no longer the student, your the instructor. That student relies on you to help him/her become the best pilot they can. They are and will ask you questions that you haven't the slightest idea of, especially at first...and you'll realize quick just how little you really do know. lol. But, it's how you respond that determines what kinda CFI you will be. Make some crap up, and you'll be crap...if you'll be honest, and go look up the answer then you'll both benefit. You have to stay on top of your game and multi-task. You'll get real good at it fast.
And no ones going to make you teach a primary student. I don't. It would be extremely rewarding to have a student solo for the first time...but it's just not my cup of tea for my own reasons. Everyone has their reasons for CFIing - whether it's a full time gig, a part time job to help pay the bills until a regional, or an evil time builder who doesn't care at all.
As for the airlines, couldn't help you...no personal interest in the airlines.
And no ones going to make you teach a primary student. I don't. It would be extremely rewarding to have a student solo for the first time...but it's just not my cup of tea for my own reasons. Everyone has their reasons for CFIing - whether it's a full time gig, a part time job to help pay the bills until a regional, or an evil time builder who doesn't care at all.
As for the airlines, couldn't help you...no personal interest in the airlines.
I'll agree with all of this. If there is any ONE thing (and there's not, there are many) that you are guaranteed to gain from instructing, especially teaching primary students vs. the more advanced is multi-tasking. You learn how to watch the airplane, other planes, the student, ATC, all that stuff, plus TEACH at the same time. After a year or two, it'll all be second-nature. I had a blast with my primary students, and there isn't much in this world as stressful or rewarding as watching one of your first solo go up.
08-12-2007, 08:20 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Left seat
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I've got about 2000 hours dual given. I'm sure there are people here with much more, but just saying I've got some qualifications.
You will learn the most from your primary students (instrument students are second, then multi, then commercial. I have a fair amount of sea, glider, tailwheel, etc. that I'm not talking about in this post, just the 'big four.')
Most instructors I've known have said they enjoy advanced instruction more than primary, and to an extent I can understand that. Primary instruction can be incredibly more frustrating that other types. It also can be the most rewarding type of instruction by far. The moments that you'll look back on with the most fondness will likely be with a primary students, because with none of the others do you get that moment where they suddenly 'get it.' It's a wonderful feeling, and will leave you feeling good for the rest of the day.
If you've made the decision to flight instruct, I *really* think you'll be doing yourself a disservice by trying to skip primary students. You'll also likely find some resentment from pilots and other instructors. My $.02.
You will learn the most from your primary students (instrument students are second, then multi, then commercial. I have a fair amount of sea, glider, tailwheel, etc. that I'm not talking about in this post, just the 'big four.')
Most instructors I've known have said they enjoy advanced instruction more than primary, and to an extent I can understand that. Primary instruction can be incredibly more frustrating that other types. It also can be the most rewarding type of instruction by far. The moments that you'll look back on with the most fondness will likely be with a primary students, because with none of the others do you get that moment where they suddenly 'get it.' It's a wonderful feeling, and will leave you feeling good for the rest of the day.
If you've made the decision to flight instruct, I *really* think you'll be doing yourself a disservice by trying to skip primary students. You'll also likely find some resentment from pilots and other instructors. My $.02.
08-13-2007, 02:05 AM
#10
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,945
I personally think that instructing is an invaluable step in the progression of any career, not just the airlines. Do I like primary students? Yes and no, I think that it can be extremely tedious to take 5 or 6 primary students in one day 5 days per week and just go out and do slow flight steep turns and stalls over and over again until they progress to the landing phase and then you just do pattern work 8 hours (logged) per day. That being said you get a tremendous feel of satisfaction knowing that everything they learn and every concept they grasp is because of you and you should feel good about that.
On that same note everything they know is because of you so it is imperative that you do anything and everything within your power to make them a better pilot then you are. Do not ever be afraid to admit your faults, I have done it many times and everytime they have been appreciative for the correction, I will call a student after I go home for the day just to tell them I was wrong so my incorrect information will not sit in their head longer than it has to.
The skils you will develop flight instructing are evident almost immediately, like others have said, every single phase of every flight you are analyzing technique and all of the four phases of flight and what they are doing in relation to your airplane at every given moment. What is happening now, what will happen if the student does this etc etc, you will be thinking two hours ahead of the airplane at all times and really feel the plane and its capabilities.
Advanced students are an easy way out if you simply skip the primary, although still rewarding you are doing a disservice by not sharing with the fledgling pilot community your knowledge to the primary students. On the same note you are still doing your part to better yourself and help someone achieve their goal and you will develop solid instrument skills by teaching others instrument, you will really start to learn the system.
As for multi students, I personally believe that no one has any place teaching in a twin until they have proven they can teach in a single. It took me 500 dual given before I was allowed to teach in the twin. Just because you have your MEI does not mean you can teach in a twin. If all is going well then you will do just fine, but what about when things go wrong..your 20 hours of PIC wont help you. There are many schools though who are hurting for instructors, to include MEI's so there is a great chance you can just walk in the door and step into the twin. Also being said there are twice as many student pilots looking for instructors as instrument candidates and so on up the list so you will be needed for everything, not just the "good stuff"
On a final note...if you kind of want to instruct but not really...honestly, just go to ATP to instruct or Ari Ben. Both of those schools hire brand new instructors, put them in the left seat of the twin immediately and then expect that you will leave as soon as you hit 400-500 hours. It is a win win situation for both of you.
Hope some of it helps in some way.
USMC
On that same note everything they know is because of you so it is imperative that you do anything and everything within your power to make them a better pilot then you are. Do not ever be afraid to admit your faults, I have done it many times and everytime they have been appreciative for the correction, I will call a student after I go home for the day just to tell them I was wrong so my incorrect information will not sit in their head longer than it has to.
The skils you will develop flight instructing are evident almost immediately, like others have said, every single phase of every flight you are analyzing technique and all of the four phases of flight and what they are doing in relation to your airplane at every given moment. What is happening now, what will happen if the student does this etc etc, you will be thinking two hours ahead of the airplane at all times and really feel the plane and its capabilities.
Advanced students are an easy way out if you simply skip the primary, although still rewarding you are doing a disservice by not sharing with the fledgling pilot community your knowledge to the primary students. On the same note you are still doing your part to better yourself and help someone achieve their goal and you will develop solid instrument skills by teaching others instrument, you will really start to learn the system.
As for multi students, I personally believe that no one has any place teaching in a twin until they have proven they can teach in a single. It took me 500 dual given before I was allowed to teach in the twin. Just because you have your MEI does not mean you can teach in a twin. If all is going well then you will do just fine, but what about when things go wrong..your 20 hours of PIC wont help you. There are many schools though who are hurting for instructors, to include MEI's so there is a great chance you can just walk in the door and step into the twin. Also being said there are twice as many student pilots looking for instructors as instrument candidates and so on up the list so you will be needed for everything, not just the "good stuff"
On a final note...if you kind of want to instruct but not really...honestly, just go to ATP to instruct or Ari Ben. Both of those schools hire brand new instructors, put them in the left seat of the twin immediately and then expect that you will leave as soon as you hit 400-500 hours. It is a win win situation for both of you.
Hope some of it helps in some way.
USMC
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