Pilotpip

Use it as a learning experience. Chances are whatever you failed on will be a strong point in your teaching from now on. The oral is the hard part. Remember to never stop teaching during the flight unless the examiner tells you to shut up.

Cubdriver

You have at my genuine sympathy since I think the first-attempt failure rate is too high on this exam. Most applicants pass on subsequent tries so what is the point, touching them up somehow? It should be as "hard" as a final exam in college and those do not require multiple tries. Since FAA can't give a score they seem to feel the only way they can show their opinion is to fail you three times. This is stupid. This amounts to negative motivation, and is hardly an objective way to test. If you wish to encourage pilots to take some pride in their position as teachers it is counterproductive. If the test were standardized like medical and law exams, and the CFI-initial failure rate was still as high I would say wow, it's a really tough discipline to teach flying, but I don't think this the case and most CFIs quit in ten months anyway.

I am not going for my CFI until I feel I have better than a 50% chance of success on the first pass, and frankly I have no reason to go and get beat up like it is now. If someone said, loan me a thousand bucks so I can gamble and I will share the profit when I win, by the way the success rate is 12%, who in their right mind would say yeah. Flying has always been fun for me and I am not into ego trips, and CFI initial smacks of that as far as the FAA is concerned.

Or maybe pink slips are nothing to be ashamed of? I've six! I've got 14...!

FlyingPoke

I agree that there should be some form of standardization, orals ranging (from what I've hard) between 1-8 hours doesnt seem very standardized. But I guess the PTS is their attempt at standardization.

However, I think what the FAA is trying to do is create a general fear of the test, that way all applicants study their butts off to try and get prepaired... and if that is the case they are succeeding. I guess they decided the only way to do this is to have a very lopsided fail/pass rate. Overall it MIGHT amount to instructors being better prepaired.

Either way a pink slip isnt the end of the world, (from what I gather) I believe even regionals know about the initial failure rate of CFI applicants and will take this into account.

LAfrequentflyer

Why? Its easier for CFIs to make money off their students with vague training requirements / pass rates on exams. I can see / hear FBO CFIs trying to sqeeze an extra $$$ out of their students by holding the specter of failure over them. You need another hour to really put a good finish on that emergency procedure or turn around a point.

-LAFF

EAHINC

I find that many CFI applicants get in trouble on the oral because they treat CFI training as just another rating for a pilot certificate.

The CFI Certificate is a teaching certificate not a pilot certificate. This involves public speaking skills, research and study to enable the applicant to impart aviation knowlege and facts that are concise and accurate.

The bottom line is many applicants deserve to fail because of a serious lack of preperation and study. If an applicant cant explain the difference between the crab and the wing-low method of the crosswind approach and landing techniques or the difference between gyroscopic precession and asymmetric propeller loading or any of the hundreds of other subjects then he is exposing himself to a pink slip.

It all comes down to a lack of study and prep.

Erik

Cubdriver

I intend to take the CFI initial when I have time to get to a point where I am so solid in everything so they are not as likely to fail me. My complaining is due to the fact this cert takes so much more time than the others, time I don't have. People tell me they made 500 page books of lesson plans, knew the fars by rote memory and still failed. But, I guess 14 pink slips down the road I'll get to teach someone to do an S turn.

EAHINC

Hi there Cubdriver:

I understand and agree with you regarding the frustration with the whole CFI thing. It can be a real pain if not approached methodologically with good effort on part of the applicant.

I'm also acutely aware around the country certain FSDOs have different CFI pratical test horror stories, some really bad, others not so bad and even others that are easy. The CFI rating should be less subjective and more streamlined other than the basic PTS standard as a guide. Don't hold your breath on that one though...

If you don't feel comfortable to take the ride with the feds, you could go to an accelerated CFI school and do the CFI with a DPE? It wont be a total "give-me" but it may limit some of the stress of the actual check ride.

Either way, you will need to do some honest studying, reading and practice teaching before you take the ride. It can actually be really fun once you take the plunge.

The good thing about all this is very little new material is introduced. You already have gone over all subject matter during you commercial, the CFI training focuses on polishing your delivery of detailed information.

Erik

Cubdriver

I appreciate that encouragement. I am going to a new job soon (Wichita) and should be able to find more time to bear down on it there. I really want to get the cert and look forward to making progress on it. At least I can get to the point there will be fewer pink slips, if any.

FlyingPoke

Off topic, but Im actually from Wichita and I am going to try and instruct up there, small world...

As far as studying and being prepaired, I've been prepairing for this ride for a few months now, just so happens the examiner found an area I am a little weak it... which as another poster said, due to this it will likely be a strong area after this experience. It's not like I rushed myself or was completely unprepaired for the test (afterall I only have one section to finish up, besides the flight portion).

Cubdriver - while it is pretty common to have a failure on a CFI initial, all I would say is start studying well before you start the flight instruction training, if you do Part 61 there is no time/lesson requirement. Might as well get it done though, no need to wait around for more experience when all you need to do is start cracking the books.

Pilotpip

Did you quit taking your meds? Man you went for a number of months without any of your anti-FBO crap and now it's back.

By the way, 4 of the 5 from ALLATPS in my class FAILED.