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SongMan 09-15-2007 08:31 PM

Shooting a Pilot Nav (as published) approach question
 
When you are shooting a LOC approach Pilot Nav and say the Final Approach Course is 180, I would go out on a course reversal for two minutes once I pass the IAF(NDB in this case) and do the prcedure turn inbound to intercept the Localizer.

So my question is, when I'm going out bound for 2 minutes on Final approach course, am I tracking the localizer out bound or am I just flying the heading... in this case 360 for two minutes?

I guess the same goes for VOR approach. If I tracking out bound on a final aproch course of 181(radial), am I just heading a 360 for two minutes or am I suppose to actually track 181 radial out bound?

thanks!!!

Pilotpip 09-15-2007 09:01 PM

You fly outbound on the radial. Do this for a couple reasons. First, the protected airspace and terrain clearance is predicated on the final approach course. Second, by flying outbound on the course you have a good idea of the required wind correction and you aren't going to be flying "blindly" and wondering when the needle is going to center on the PT.

SongMan 09-15-2007 09:09 PM


Originally Posted by Pilotpip (Post 231520)
You fly outbound on the radial. Do this for a couple reasons. First, the protected airspace and terrain clearance is predicated on the final approach course. Second, by flying outbound on the course you have a good idea of the required wind correction and you aren't going to be flying "blindly" and wondering when the needle is going to center on the PT.

How about Localizer? Do I have to track Localizer outbound too?
Is this just recommended or is this madatory? I ask this becuase You are still at pretty high altitude in most case...somtimes even at or above Minimum Safe Altitude if I'm not mistaken.

timnunes 09-16-2007 04:11 PM

Track outbound on the radial, no matter what kind of approach. Also, I've always done 1 minute, unless the IAF is on the field then you do 2 minutes.

the King 09-16-2007 04:19 PM

Yeah, 1 min if IAF is off-field and 2 min if its on the field and track the course outbound.

rickair7777 09-16-2007 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by SongMan (Post 231524)
How about Localizer? Do I have to track Localizer outbound too?
Is this just recommended or is this madatory? I ask this becuase You are still at pretty high altitude in most case...somtimes even at or above Minimum Safe Altitude if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, you track the LOC, radial, RNAV track or whatever is published. You don't ever just use a heading because strong winds could possibly blow you so far off course that you would have difficulty re-intercepting inbound.

HSLD 09-16-2007 05:26 PM

Time, Speed, and Distance.......
 
Why 2 minutes, why not 2:10 or 1:50?

My point being is that the time you chose to fly outbound SHOULD have a direct correlation ground speed. If flying a course reversal (full procedure turn) TERPS defines protected airspace as 10NM outbound from the fix, 6NM on the PT side and 2NM on the non-PT side of the outbound course.

Any timing should be predicated on the GROUNDSPEED at which the reversal is flown as to stay within the protected airspace defined by TERPS.

Not to nit-pick, but, flying 1 minute or 2 minutes "just because" isn't correct and it may not keep you within protected airspace.

Pilotpip 09-16-2007 05:34 PM

As HSLD said, the important thing isn't flying exactly 2 minutes every time. The only thing you should do is complete the turn within 10nm of the fix and give yourself enough time to be established, configured and stabilized. If you have a strong headwind while flying outbound you may want to extend to 3 or 4 minutes to allow for this.

the King 09-16-2007 07:48 PM

You're right. You are required to stay within 10 miles of the IAF. In the light airplanes we usually fly, 2 minutes will usually keep you with in the area, but for an off-field IAF it will take forever to get back to the airport.

HSLD 09-18-2007 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by the King (Post 231835)
You're right. You are required to stay within 10 miles of the IAF. In the light airplanes we usually fly, 2 minutes will usually keep you with in the area, but for an off-field IAF it will take forever to get back to the airport.

Regardless of where the IAF is located, your still required to be established (inbound) on the final approach course prior to passing the FAF (which on procedures requiring a course reversal is normally the IAF outbound).

My only point was that knowing the impact wind is having on groundspeed/ground track, you'll be better equipped to adjust timed turns. As you can tell I'm not a fan of the one size fits all "2 minute" rule.


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