aerospacepilot

61.129

Aeronautical experience for commercial pilots. I cannot figure it out. I am a private/instrument pilot with about 165hrs. I am going to build some time (say 50 hours) of Cessna-172 time to set myself up for getting my commercial single/multi engine rating this summer when school gets out.

I am trying to decide how much time I should build before I start commercial SEL training. According to the FAR's, for commercial SEL, I need:
- 250hrs of flight time, 100 PIC, 50 xc. Ok, that is easy.
Parts 3 and 4 confuse me.
(3)20hrs of training in 61.127 that includes atleast:
- 10hrs of instrument training, atleast 5hrs must be in single engine airplanes.
- 10hrs of training in an airplane with RG, flaps, and controllable pitch propeller.
- One cross country flight of atleast 2hrs in a single engine airplane in day VFR conditions, straight line distance of more than 100nm.
- One cross country flight of atleast 2hrs in a single engine airplane in night VFR conditions, straight line distance of more than 100nm.
- 3hrs in a single engine airplane in preparation for the checkride.
(4)10hrs of solo flight in single engine airplanes that includes atleast:
- One cross country flight of more than 300nm, atleast 250nm straight line distance
- 5hrs in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs/landings at airport with tower.


Ok, first the solo requirements (part 4). Lets say I have already met all three of these requirements (10hrs solo, 300nm flight, and 5hrs in night VFR conditions). Am I good to go, or do I have to "practice the areas of operation listed in 61.127?? In other words, do I have to wait until I start commercial training, then do this stuff, or is it ok as long as I have done it at some point in my flying life?

Now back to part 3. Say I already have 10hrs of instrument training from my instrument rating. Do I need to do this again, or am I good to go? Next question, how long does it usually take to learn to fly a RG and controllable pitch airplane? I plan to do my commercial SEL in a C-172RG. Would it be feasable to do those two 2hr cross countries and the 3 hours of checkride prep in the complex airplane while building up to 10hrs?
How many hours does it take a typical student to get a commercial single engine rating? Is 10hrs feasable, or is it usually much more (assuming you have the solo requirements out of the way before you start training)?

And I am even more confused about the commercial multi engine FAR's, but I will save that until after I find out about the single engine questions. Thanks in advance. I am going to go back to reading my Space Mission Analysis and Design book, it is less confusing than reading the FAR's!
Thanks in advance!!

mjarosz

Ok, as a CFI, here's my interpretation of it all...
If you do it under a 141 program, the long XCs and night solo, etc... must be done while you are training for your commercial. Same goes for the instrument. Under 61, I think it could be done anytime. I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am.
Learning to fly a complex aircraft isn't hard at all. Just remember to retract the gear after you take off and please, please extend it before you land. And you set power by first setting a manifold pressure setting and then adjust RPM for cruise. The 172RG is simple enough to fly. Just remember to get that complex signoff so you can log all that time as PIC. Shouldn't take much more than an hour.
As for the time to get the commercial SEL, learning the maneuvers should take around 10 hrs or so, as long as you keep at it. Everyone wants to rush through the lazy-8s. Remember that they are a slow maneuver.
-MJ

TXTECHKA

you're at the point now where you have some time to burn and all you need to do is fly. What you should do is fly until you have about 230 to 235 hours in the 172 and then get with an instructor for the rest. That 20 hours will be spent basically in checkride prep and getting you comfortable with the airplane for the checkride. That 15 hours can cover all the requirements easily. Its not a very hard ride either, basically a private pilot checkride with a few more maneuvers. I did my commercial my sophomore year of college and the best part of it was building time flyin to random places with my buddies and taking girls flyin. Start on your cfi as soon as you get your commercial rating also because a commercial without a cfi is pretty worthless and all that information will still be fresh. You don't have to do extra instrument training, that part is included since you technically don't need to be ifr to have a comm rating so you can exclude that part. Just make sure your instructor puts you under the hood for a little bit because you'll probably get some unusual attitudes or timed turns or something during the test.

P.S. The day and night 2 hour cross countrys are supposed to be dual. When the regs specify "training" they are implying dual with an instructor. Do this stuff in conjunction with getting checked out in the airplane. Also get the solo stuff out of the way now and make sure to specify that it was a "300 nm x country for comm rating solo" or something like that so it is easy for the examiner to find when they go through your log book. They love it when you have it all organized.

brianb10

I too am currently working on my commercial. I started when I had about 175 hours and now I am at about 230. I will do the last 15-20 hammering out the maneuvers so its fresh at checkride time. I'd like to take the checkride as close to 250 as possible. What I decided to do was to build my time as cross country time. I figured that if I needed 75 hours I could either bore holes in the sky 1 hour at a time or go fun places with friends and family. The time building went a lot faster and I discovered a love of flying that had disappeared during all those hours under the hood during instrument training.

Good luck with your training.