Suspended license
11-27-2007, 05:26 AM
#1
Flying Farmer
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Suspended license
No, not my license, but a fellow called me yesterday asking if he can get his pilots license, albeit his drivers license is suspended(Not sure if this is a permanent or temporary suspension though, or why it happened yet). Some insight would be appreciated. I know a Fed, but don't have his number, but I'll find it if I have to.
11-27-2007, 07:30 AM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Yes, your pilot cert (with all ratings) along with your CFI cert can be suspended for a period of time or revoked.
The normal progression for FAA discipline (as I understand it) is as follows. Which level you get to depends on the severity of the violation...
1) Phone Number: You call the ATC sup and talk things over. They may leave it at that and the FSDO enforcers will never know a thing (still do a nasa form to CYA).
2) Stern Talking To: In this case the FSDO is aware of the situation (via ATC or through other means), if it was minor, unintentional, and both you and the fed have a good attitude, it may get dropped at this point. You may get a letter of investigation (LOI), or they may just invite you to come in and chat.
3) Formal Warning: You will get an LOI, the FAA will do a formal investigation and violate you. The warning stays in your file for a period of time (not sure how long), and will ensure harsher treament for any future violations.
4) Suspension: Just like 3) after an investigation your certs will be suspended for 30 days to one year I think. (normally ALL of your certs, although they might let you keep your A&P for a flight violation and vice-versa)
6) Revocation: Just like 3) following an investigation your certs will be permanently revoked. Usually you can re-apply in one year by meeting all training requirements (you already do, except for currency), taking all written tests, and taking all check rides again. In some cases I think they can deny re-application forever.
7) Emergency Revocation: This is for really serious stuff...unlike the previous situations they revoke your certs IMMEDIATELY without any due process. An investigation will eventually follow and the revocation may be reduced to something else or thrown out (but probably not).
In the case of 1) and 2) there is no formal record of any problem, and it shouldn't come back to haunt you.
For 3) through 7) you can appeal to an administrative law judge. If you don't like his answer you can appeal to the NTSB board (the actual appointed political members). Appeals of FAA violations rarely succeed.
In all cases hopefully you realized the violation occured and filled out and mailed the nasa form within ten days...by the time the LOI arrives, it will too late for nasa. When the fed contacts you be sure and tell him that you mailed a nasa form...if he knows he can't get your tickets, he may lose interest and issue a warning or drop it. Also be aware that nasa forms have limitations...one of which is that they don't work for intentional violations. Altitude violation=accidental. Flying with known Mx or currency disrepencies = intentional.
Any professional pilot who thinks he may be in FAA trouble needs to get legal help (AOPA, Union, or aviation Lawyer).
The normal progression for FAA discipline (as I understand it) is as follows. Which level you get to depends on the severity of the violation...
1) Phone Number: You call the ATC sup and talk things over. They may leave it at that and the FSDO enforcers will never know a thing (still do a nasa form to CYA).
2) Stern Talking To: In this case the FSDO is aware of the situation (via ATC or through other means), if it was minor, unintentional, and both you and the fed have a good attitude, it may get dropped at this point. You may get a letter of investigation (LOI), or they may just invite you to come in and chat.
3) Formal Warning: You will get an LOI, the FAA will do a formal investigation and violate you. The warning stays in your file for a period of time (not sure how long), and will ensure harsher treament for any future violations.
4) Suspension: Just like 3) after an investigation your certs will be suspended for 30 days to one year I think. (normally ALL of your certs, although they might let you keep your A&P for a flight violation and vice-versa)
6) Revocation: Just like 3) following an investigation your certs will be permanently revoked. Usually you can re-apply in one year by meeting all training requirements (you already do, except for currency), taking all written tests, and taking all check rides again. In some cases I think they can deny re-application forever.
7) Emergency Revocation: This is for really serious stuff...unlike the previous situations they revoke your certs IMMEDIATELY without any due process. An investigation will eventually follow and the revocation may be reduced to something else or thrown out (but probably not).
In the case of 1) and 2) there is no formal record of any problem, and it shouldn't come back to haunt you.
For 3) through 7) you can appeal to an administrative law judge. If you don't like his answer you can appeal to the NTSB board (the actual appointed political members). Appeals of FAA violations rarely succeed.
In all cases hopefully you realized the violation occured and filled out and mailed the nasa form within ten days...by the time the LOI arrives, it will too late for nasa. When the fed contacts you be sure and tell him that you mailed a nasa form...if he knows he can't get your tickets, he may lose interest and issue a warning or drop it. Also be aware that nasa forms have limitations...one of which is that they don't work for intentional violations. Altitude violation=accidental. Flying with known Mx or currency disrepencies = intentional.
Any professional pilot who thinks he may be in FAA trouble needs to get legal help (AOPA, Union, or aviation Lawyer).
Last edited by rickair7777; 11-27-2007 at 09:19 AM.
11-27-2007, 07:48 AM
#3
Flying Farmer
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
You misunderstood me here......A prospective future student asked if it's possible to get even though going into it his drivers license is suspended. I know the troubles etc.. that come with one while you are a currently rated pilot. Reminder, this is a drivers license that's suspended, not a pilot's, because the guy hasn't started training yet.
11-27-2007, 08:49 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"but it is rare that someone gets hired when a DUI is on his record."
I don't think it's a show stopper. Especially at the lower levels of the ladder.
As far as DL being suspended, I'd tell him to go get a medical. If he comes back with one, I'd say go for it. I've never seen a reg that says it's the CFI's responsibility to find out if a guy has a drivers license. Maybe it's a new TSA thing, but I think he could prove citizenship and ID better with a passport.
I don't think it's a show stopper. Especially at the lower levels of the ladder.
As far as DL being suspended, I'd tell him to go get a medical. If he comes back with one, I'd say go for it. I've never seen a reg that says it's the CFI's responsibility to find out if a guy has a drivers license. Maybe it's a new TSA thing, but I think he could prove citizenship and ID better with a passport.
11-27-2007, 09:01 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: To the right of Mickey
Posts: 129
The only relevant language I could find in a quick look is:
To me, it sounds like a discretionary call on the part of the FAA if it was a drug or alcohol-related suspension. You'll probably want to call your Fed, however, once you get the full details. If the suspension was for some other reason (failure to pay child support, accident without insurance, etc.) he may be fine, so long as he has a passport or other sufficient photo ID.
***
@rusty: We have no idea why the prospective student wants to learn to fly. For all we know, he's a doctor who just bought himself a Columbia and has no intention of making a career out of it.
§ 61.15 Offenses involving alcohol or drugs.
...
(c) For the purposes of paragraphs (d), (e), and (f) of this section, a motor vehicle action means:
(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;
(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or
(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.
(d) Except for a motor vehicle action that results from the same incident or arises out of the same factual circumstances, a motor vehicle action occurring within 3 years of a previous motor vehicle action is grounds for:
(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of the last motor vehicle action; or
(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.
...
(c) For the purposes of paragraphs (d), (e), and (f) of this section, a motor vehicle action means:
(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;
(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or
(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.
(d) Except for a motor vehicle action that results from the same incident or arises out of the same factual circumstances, a motor vehicle action occurring within 3 years of a previous motor vehicle action is grounds for:
(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of the last motor vehicle action; or
(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.
***
@rusty: We have no idea why the prospective student wants to learn to fly. For all we know, he's a doctor who just bought himself a Columbia and has no intention of making a career out of it.
11-27-2007, 11:22 AM
#7
Flying Farmer
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Thanks guys, this is what I was thinking, but I don't want to tell someone to "go for it" and cost them money when it wasn't plausible. I'm still waiting to hear from my local DPE if he's got any info, this seems to be the best course of action for now. Thing is, the bus doesn't come out here, wonder how that's going to work in the winter!!!! Yikes
09-11-2013, 09:06 PM
#8
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 74
I hate to dig up an old thread... but a student of mine (a commercial student, oyyy) wants a 2nd class (he holds a third) but misread the form when he got the 3rd a couple of years ago. He has had his license suspended (currently it's not) about 5-6 years ago for acquiring too many points on his license. Sounds like he also had it suspended when he was a teenager. None of it was alcohol related, just driving related.. What should he do? I don't even know, I never had to deal with it and that form isn't exactly clear-cut.
Wow, this thread is mummified! Still, good info tho.
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