Hey, I'm looking for a bit of advice on flying the Piper Tomahawk. I've heard some good things about the airplane such as the increased view etc... as well as some bad things such as the plane having a tendency to spin easier then most trainers, and the inefficiency the of elevator at low airspeeds. I know every plane has their quirks and it largely depends on how you fly it, I'm just trying to get a heads up. I'm going to be using a friends Tomahawk for some local VFR flights just to tool around and have some fun. I have experience in Pipers, and am close to wrapping up my Commercial with SEL/MEL and instrument. Any CFI's with experience teaching it, I would appreciate some input, but anybody who has extensive knowledge of it would be just as welcomed..

FYI (I'm aware of the the structural issues considering it, and plan to talk with him, I'm just looking for first hand opinions of its flight characteristics, things to look out for etc...)

-- See ya in the blue--

 

Go do some stalls and take a look back at the tail.

 

Funny you should mention that, my CFI were talking about that today

 

Don't let any of the bad press about the "Traumahawk" influence you. It's a great little airplane. VERY light on the controls, but honest as the day is long. True, it can bite you if you let too many rotations get away from you when doing spins, but quick response to correct will more than take care of you. I can recall instructing in one when encountering wake turbulence from a Falcon 50 while entering the traffic pattern at TEB. The wake from the Falcon hit my starboard wing like a sledgehammer, deflecting me more than 100 deg down to the right. Quick response of full left aileron deflection brought us right side up. Don't think recovery would have been possible if we were in a Cherokee or "Chickenhawk". Have fun with it, be assertive, but gentle, and it will reward you with endless hours of flying fun!

 

Did my instrument in a tomahawk. I found that it behaved well- but I didn't expect it to do the flying for me. keep that in mind, and you'll do fine

 

Hey guys I really appreciate it...

 

I instructed in the Tomahawk for 2 years. Put me down in the "it's a great trainer and don't believe the negative hype category". As for stall spin characteristics, a couple of sessions of starting at a high enough altitude and holding the stick back to the stop, so as to keep the airplane in a stall, keeping the wings level with the rudder and then rudder and ailerons will give you a great feel for the airplane. You will build much confidence in the airplane and you will never be unsure of its stall mannerisms. Not that it is a great feat to transition from a Cessna to a Tomahawk but, compared to each other, Cessna to Tomahawk transition has always been a little more challenging than a Tomahawk to Cessna transition.

The control response is wonderful when compared to a 150/152/172. Not to mention, it is very comfortable. It has the same interior width as a 172.

The only thing that Cessnas are better for is short and soft field takeoffs and landings. In the Tomahawk, the inefficiency of the elevator at low speeds only applies to taxiing on a soft field and early in the takeoff roll on a soft field. It is never an issue on a hard surface.

Overall, I think it is a superior trainer than a 150/152/172.


BTW; If you happen to turn around and look at the tail during stalls, don't get nervous. It's supposed to be a shuttering blur!

 

I've got about 250tt in the Tomahawk, and I did my CFI spins in it as well.

IIRC, a contributing factor in the early stall/spin issues for the plane was that the yoke shaft could be deflected upwards and possibly jam when fully deflected aft during the stall. This made it difficult(impossible in some cases) to apply forward elevator and break the stall. We would always apply slight downward pressure(towards the floorboards) to the yoke while pushing forward when initiating stall recovery.

My primary CFI was a Navy A4 pilot, he loved to demonstrate cross-controlled stalls in the PA38. You learn coordination pretty fast when you suddenly find yourself on your back! Chop the throttle and a John Wayne back thru, then home in time to change your shorts.

As for spins, no more than 3 turns. They just aren't any fun after that.

 

This is totally true, I've done all my training so far in Tomahawks and I really like them. At first I was somewhat apprehensive because of all the bad hype (traumahawk etc), but it's pretty much all down to the way you treat the plane.

After about 5 hours in it doing the basic stuff I had a senior instructor take me out to a quiet area and did stalls and spins for a good hour and a half. It certainly builds your confidence in its abilities and limitations. As Radials Rule explained keeping it level with the rudder gives you a good idea of what happends when.

A few of the Tomahawks at the club I fly with have had a few knocks on the corners of the wings from bad taxiing etc which affected the handling a little in stalls too, one wing would drop pretty quick when you entered a stall in it. But it's not really an issue and they're great to fly. I did my first solo after 14 hours and did it in the Tomahawk most prone to wing drops (some people are sh#t at taxiing), lived to tell the tale

 

if i'm not mistaken, isn't there an AD on the tail section when doing spins?
i guess i'm in the minority against the tomahawk, yea, i have only a few hours in one but i'd rather deal with a C-150/152 anyday.
best o' luck