maddog81

I heard a while back that the FAA was taking issue with people doing multi training in the DA-42 due to the fact that it does not have prop or mixture controls, and therefore, not truely "complex." Rumour was/is that the FAA is going to make a fadec limitaion much like the centerline thrust limitation for the c-337. Was wondering if anyone had more information on what became of this.

rickair7777

That's interesting. I think it applies equally to SE or ME complex airplanes.

At first glance it seems that the complex endorsement already covers this...but the DA-42 actually HAS a controllable-pitch prop, it's just not pilot-controlled. So technically it qualifies you for a complex endorsement.

Maybe they should just change the requirement for a complex airplane to be one with "pilot controlled" gear, props and flaps. Small change in wording to clarify the original intent of the endorsement.

the King

I've also heard the FAA was investigating, but I don't think they've come to a decision, or at least, they haven't created such a limitation.

rickair7777

I think they should. You do need at least a little mixture-props-throttles training to safely fly an "old-school" airplane...especially a twin.

III Corps

This is sort of funny. I guess the issue is more of which lever to pull rather than if one can effectively deal with the asymetric thrust line..

the King

I can see pros and cons for each way. I wonder whether FADEC will eventually become standard and "classic" airplanes will be considered about the same way most of us think of a DC-3. It's cool, but the odds of us getting in and learning to fly one are pretty low. I hope not, but look at what's happened with the rise of GPS.

BHopper88

well as having almost 150 hrs in the DA42 and getting my MEI in the DA42 I can see the pros and cons. First off its an easier twin to fly than a seminole and say seneca. Say you learn only in the twin star going into say a seminole would be a harder transition than going from a seminole to a twin star. But really in the twinstar you are learning in a twin where there is a critical engine rather than the counter rotating twins.

As for the FADECs and say the cirrus where there isnt a prop control, its becoming easier but you still have to understand what the systems are doing and how the prop operates just as in a manual prop control. You just dont control it really as much. FADECs are now going into the C172s and im sure soon in the C182s and the rumored Diesel SR22 with the Thielert engine.

But thats just my opinion

maddog81

BHopper, what is the engine out procedure like in the -42? I've never flown it, but from what I've been told it is a simple as identifying the bad motor and then pushing a button. Although that is a great idea for somebody buying the plane as a crusier, I think you need the old fashioned levers for training purposes.

And from what I've gathered, there is a company that is going to be making aftermarket mods for the c-172, -182, and a few other piston singles to equip them with fadec as well.

emsgoof

Not to be an ass, but why? You're learning in a twin. If you're going to rent one, the place you're renting from (if they're any good) is going to require a checkout in the aircraft. If it has levers and you can't figure it out, then they aren't going to let you fly.
I'm pretty sure insurance companies aren't going to say "Okay, go have fun" once a person buys a twin right off either. They're going to want proof of training on that type of aircraft, levers or not.
We have a saying in the fire department... 100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress...

BHopper88

the engine out procedure for the twin star is

Power levers full fwd, (look at MFD) identify the bad engine (look at % of Pwr and RPM among the engine gauges) then you bring that power lever to idle, troubleshoot according to the checklist, and then if you need to take the failed engines ENGINE MASTER and switch to OFF which will then feather the engine.

Its really an easy procedure compared to flying in say the seneca I we have at our flight school, and the seminole i did my training at. The thing to get used to is the critical engine and all the torque the engines do produce even at the 135 HP

If anyone is really interested i can send them the powerpoint on the DA42 systems...

But really you get your ME in an ME aircraft, if you want to rent one or say you did buy one, you would have to do a checkout with an instructor for say at least 5 hrs if you have never flown that aircraft before. If you buy one as per insurance, they might say you need 20 (pulling a random number out there) hours you might need to fly with an instructor depending on that pilots experience tell they give the thumbs up for you to fly it on your own. I dont see the rules for the FAA to change for flying a FADEC vs a traditional.. Now what might happen in the future would be to have say an endorsement such as what might happen with the TAA aircraft out there such as the Cirrus. As a CSIP you have to get the required transition to own and even rent a cirrus, its not your standard checkout like a C172