LucasM

yeah i guess it is a pretty humbling experience. the examiner is dave garner from tampa florida. a buddy of mine took his initial cfi-mei checkride and passed with flying colors with that examiner, pretty much becuase he knew his FOI real good, but oh well.

block30

I remember a CFI referring to the FOI as 60's pop psychology. I am inclined to agree.

The FAA books give neat, often terse guidance on teaching people. The reality is better reflected through reading authors like Machado, Kershner, Eckalbar, Buck, etc. and magazines like Flight Training. And let's not forget your own good judgement and experiences on what helped or hindered your own learning.

Some examiners like in ryguys case ask for this uber explanation that would NEVER 'fly' in the real world. CFI checkrides usually produce the most horror stories. In my case the examiner literally never smiled, repeated back to me what I taught except then grossly misquoted me. Then we'd go round and round in circles until I got him quit misquoting me. And he would simply stare at me when I asked questions to ensure student understanding (part of the FOIs, right?). Just sat and stared both in the cockpit and on the ground. The least he could have done was answered my question incorrectly!

So chin up! Teaching actual students is almost always a lot more fun, positive, and downright easier than teaching these examiners. Believe me, there are worse things than failing your first time through.

ryguy

Like I said before, it hasn't hindered my career. If you are going to bust one this is the one to bust. It isn't required to be a CFI so just the fact that you are doing it garners respect. Every job I have applied for in aviation asked if I failed a checkride, every time I said yes, and every time I have been hired.

Keep at it!

PDCmdcm

The fee structure described by the OP gives DPEs a perverse incentive. How many fewer failures would there be if up to three re-checks were included in the initial price?

Careercfi

Do you know what happens to the DPE when the person that just got the CFI from them screws up? Thats a bunch of responsibility I would not want to share.

The unfortunate truth is that DPE's income is greatly affected by how "laid back" they are on the checkrides, flight schools just refuse to give them business if they get too tough. God knows that there are CFI's on the market who would not carry any certificate at all, if they had to take these checks with the FAA.

I don't see a perverse incentive for DPE's, they just spend anywhere between 6-10 hours with an applicant and 500-600 dollars for that doesn't sound like they are milking the system. The FAA comes free for the applicant but the burden is with the poor taxpayer. FAA Inspectors don't work for 20K a year either.

contrails

Boy am I glad I got the guy I did for the FSDO initial CFI checkride.

He completely shattered all the horror stories and the oral + lunch break + flight was no more than six hours.

LucasM, I probably would have failed too if I didn't get such a reasonable examiner. I wouldn't worry about it. Lots of people fail that checkride the first time.

PDCmdcm

You obviously don't understand what a "perverse incentive" is. It is a financial motivation that does not belong in a process because it affects the process adversely. Remove this motivation, and the PTS moves a bit further forward in line. Many schools don't work with examiners who charge more for a recheck, and I won't either.

What happens to the DPE when the CFI screws up? He says, "Gosh, he performed perfectly throughout the entire checkride with me, which I executed according to the PTS, word by word." He answers to the government, not to the liability lawyers. What happens to the CFI is something completely different. What happens to me as a physician if I screw up is also completely different. You won't get far sobbing at me about how much responsibility DPEs have: they make more per hour than most family physicians I know, and they have much less responsibility.

I said nothing about "milking the system," nor did I make any remark about whether DPE compensation is fair or not. I happen to think it's just fine what DPEs get paid. Feel free to have your very own opinion, but don't put words in my mouth when you express it.

Careercfi

Are you done accusing me of putting words in your mouth?
Never meant it that way "buddy" but you make of it what you want.
Little agitated - huh?

Why not eliminate the DPE's from the initial CFI certification process?
They either get [insert 7 letters here]ed at for passing too many applicants or make less money if they take their job of being the last line of defense serious.

gtippin

when I did my CFI initial there was in excess of a 4 month wait to use an FAA examiner. I study aircraft accidents in depth and I have yet to hear of an examiner sited as the reason for an accident. I have heard about CFI's being held liable because they forgot to put in a logbook entry that running out of fuel or flying into a thunderstorm might get you killed. I have joked many times that if I was sitting in the last row last seat of a 747 and it went down a contributing factor would the cfi not making the proper decision. To get back to the thread dont worry youll get past this and do fine. I failed a type rating check rating type once and as of yet no one has held it against me.
Good Luck

JoeyMeatballs

though I didnt bust my CFI, I did bust two rides. Yeah it sucks but lets face it everyone does something that an examiner could technically bust somone on. We are only human we all make mistakes, its not learning from the mistakes we make that could kill us, bother literally and career wise