The ILS 15 @ KISM http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/05793IL15.PDF no longer has time. So were would the LOC missed approach point be?

 

It would be at the 1.2 ISM DME. Much easier than timing.

 

I would say the MAP would be at 2.1 ISM DME, that is the VDP so if you see the Runway past that point you shouldn't "depart the MDA because you cant do a stabalized approach using normal flight maneuvers."

 

2.1 dme is correct i think for the reason stated above. If you saw the runway environment at 1.2 dme at LOC minimums you would still be required to go missed as you could not circle as you would be below circling mins.

 

I"m not really sure, but I would say descend to the MDA of 420 MSL and execute missed approach point at the 1.2 DME. It could possibly be that they screwed up and didn't put the time in. This has happened before. We were doing some reccurrent training and was doing an approach and there was no time. Maybe call the FSDO and see what the story is.

 

Hmmm, I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

I would ask Tony. If he doesn't know, then you shouldn't worry too much about it.

 

At the 2.1DME point you are going to be at LOC mins at 338ft AGL on a 3deg slope. In a jet, if you don't have the runway at that point, you are not going to be able to complete the approach meeting 'stabilized approach criteria". In a small airplane, drone on to the 1.2DME realizing that with each second, you are creating a steeper and steeper path to the runway and unless you are in a helicopter and can hover down, at 1.2DME the glidepath is 90deg.

Obviously, another factor to consider for an open ended question is how much runway will you require to get stopped.

 

Oh just request a different approach or go to your alternate. If ATC questions why, just tell them your certificate is stamped "ILS Only".

 

While there are a lot of good thoughts here, it probably was a misprint in leaving the timing off. It is not labeled LOC-DME, so the MAP is not really based on DME. Obviously, if you are executing the ILS, your MA is started at the DA of 282, but the MAP is at the end of the runway which is 1.2 I-ISM. The key to determining that without the timing box is on the airport diagram which shows "153 degrees 3.3 NM from FAF". The MAP is not necessarily the point at which you always decide to abandon the approach, but it is the point at which you can begin any turns included in the MA procedure.

 

Many missed approach procedures contain instructions such as "climbing right turn to xxx degrees". An early turn could conflict with terrain (think RNO landing south). Therefore you are required to continue to the MAP prior to starting any turns, even though you may have decided earlier, such as at the VDP, that you will not be landing out of this approach. There are also some rare approaches that have maximum altitudes on them for crossing traffic at another airport(OAK landing east crosses under SFO landing south), and some where the missed approach has a final altitude that is below the outer marker crossing altitude. So in case of an early missed approach decision you can't always start an immediate climb, and in the case of ATC speed restrictions you may not even be able to accelerate to your flap retract speeds. You will of course request relief immediately from ATC, but it is simetimes hard to get a word in edgewise, and when you catch him by surprise his response is likely to be "fly the published miss". I know that some people will say that this clearance removes the speed restriction, but since the speed restriction may have been for seperation with the traffic ahead, speeding up may create a traffic conflict.

Joe