UConnQB14

long story short..
departed under IFR flight plan, climbed to 1000, made initial callup to ATC.. after initial contact, engine sputters and sounds like it is ready to quit on me... i start to inform ATC of problem since i am deviating from my clearance and try to make it back to airport... person #2 in the A/C switches freq in middle of radio call siting that the FAA and NTSB will be waiting on our arrival and that wouldnt be good... on arrival, i switched back to the clearance del. freq and told them we were on the ground and that we were ok.. at that point i got berated by ATC because they had us at 1000 feet heading 320 and next second we were heading 180 at 400' with no radio comms... understandign that that was wrong, but im still confused at why i shouldnt say anything

my question is this.. how is it bad to notify ATC of the problem since we have engine issues and need to land?? who cares that the field was 2 miles away and we were at 1000' and will make the airport.. in the event something DID go wrong, it would have been nice to tell someone.. i much rather the FAA be at the airport and see me land and taxi on whatever power i had left than to say nothing and be in the trees.

any thoughts?

Pilotpip

My thoughts, I would have had the other pilot working the radios. Notifying Approach on the situation and whatnot. Declare an emergency with them if you deem necessary. If you're at a non-towered airport (which it sounds like you were) listen to both and flip the transmitter switch back and forth. Make your calls to unicom and also you're listening to whatever controlling agency you're with.

Any time I've had an issue that required a diversion or an immediate return (including a pax getting sick) ATC was more than helpful and pretty much helped me with whatever I needed. When you dropped off the radar they were probably thinking the worst. They don't like that feeling either.

I'd suggest filing a NASA report on this one just to help cover.

FlyerJosh

It would help to have some more info. Who was flying and what type of plane/operation? (not that this influences the bad call on the other pilots part...)

The second pilot was definately wrong in cutting off your transmission. The proper thing to do would have been to go back and reestablish contact (although it sounds like you already know that). Personally I want every ATC bit of help I can get in an emergency- "falling off" the radios or radar certainly won't help you if things go really bad.

Airplanes are fallible and they break from time to time. Overall, the FAA is no one to fear. So what if they are "waiting when you land". Unless you're doing something you shouldn't be doing, they'll listen to what you have to say, and send you on your happy way. In this instance, not communicating properly is more likely to get the FAA dogs sic'ed on you. I'd definately be sure to fill out a NASA report.

NE_Pilot

I think that people tend to over vilify the FAA. If you tell ATC you are deviating because of suspected engine trouble, who cares if the FAA is waiting, like you said, I would rather have them waiting for me and land safely, than not tell anyone and end up in the trees. God forbid it was a real problem and no one knew about it. You definately did the right thing in telling ATC, and the second pilot was in the wrong in switching comms, especially in the middle of a transmission, that would just make matters worse.

I agree with the above poster, file a NASA report and explain exactely what happened.

Was the second pilot your instructor by any chance (don't know if you are taking lessons for IFR Rating or not)???

mistarose

As you have probably heard before, Aviate, Navigate, Troubleshoot, Communicate.

Follow that order and everything will be fine. Now, with the whole "do I tell ATC or not, or to declare or not to declare an emergency..."

Think of it this way, I am sure you would rather be on the ground safely with the FAA and other pilots saying you shouldn't have declared an emergency, than be dead having other pilots saying that I should have declared an emergency.

Just fly the airplane, if ATC yells at you for not saying anything, all you have to say is "I was focused on flying the airplane, and not killing myself." If they believe you should communicate before flying the airplane, they can go to hell.

If I was 500 AGL trying to put a plane in a field or a road, the last thing I would be thinking of is if declaring an emergency will draw good or bad attention on me and the operation I am conducting. If you think its an emergency, and you are flying the airplane before communicating, declare it - or atleast say mayday mayday mayday, N##### 3 miles east of whatever, engine quit, off field landing. Just be very short and clear, and fly the airplane, don't worry about all that!

iflyjets4food

Is there a FSDO at the field where you landed? If not, how would the FAA and NTSB be waiting at the airport within the 5 minutes it took to get back to the airport?

UConnQB14

it is my understanding that you can file as many NASA forms as you would like since they are for educational purposes, but does filing one count as my one time use of it or does it only count if there is legal action that you need it for you defense.. and how does this work since there was a CFI in the A/C

rickair7777

Sounds like your buddy really boned you. You could be on the list to get an investigation letter...file the NASA form immediately, Write a novel covering ALL the details, and send it certified mail return receipt.

You can send as many NASA forms as you like. If one of them is actually used to get you off the hook, then you cannot use the silver bullet again for three years I believe. Also be advised that the NASA form will not protect from a deliberate violation...sounds like your buddies action was pretty deliberate, but you might be able to save yourself (if you didn't realize what he was doing at that moment). Also the FAA can still investigate AND violate you, but the actual punishment would be suspended. Unfortunately you still have the bust on record for the airlines to read about.

Who was PIC? If the other guy was your intructor and you do not have an instrument rating then it's all his fault anyway. It sounds to me like that guy had something to hide...was the aircraft maintenance, paperwork, or IFR currency out of date?

If you told ATC that you returned due to engine problems, you also need to look at NTSB 830...you may be required to file an NTSB report also.

For future reference the best thing to do (sounds like you were VMC) would have been to tell ATC that you needed to return and cancelled IFR. Then switch to tower and declare an emergency or not, depending.

UConnQB14

spoke with many people today and yesterday and they are all in agreeance that HE was PIC since he was the instructor... anyways, turns out the problem was a snapped magneto wire after takeoff that was unable to be detected during run-up, which was done by the checklist..
spoke with the chief pilot this mornign and he said that the FAA will not investigate and that if they did, it is him they will look at, although i would need some additional work.. also, he said if there were to be an investigation, the phone would have rang off the hook this morning..
nevertheless, i will still file a NASA immediately

FlyerJosh

Rick, I agree wholehartedly with your advice except for one minor detail... why cancel? If my engine was running rough, you'd better believe I'd want to say with ATC. They can clear the way, and get me right back to the airport, or possibly give me some more options. Many times, ATC might know of places I can put down off the field that might be safe (Example was in Sioux City when the local controller offered the highway if UAL232 couldn't make the field).

This whole fear of declaring an emergency is ridiculous. I have never heard of a crew being removed from a trip following declaring an emergency unless it was serious or the crew wanted to go home. I have heard no stories of the FAA "waiting" for you when you land, or somebody waiting in the shadows with a "violation book".

If you have a legitimate emergency, you have nothing to fear from the FAA. I've declared emergencies 9 times in my 10 year career (1 total electrical failure, IMC at night, 1 rough engine, 2 false fire indications, 3 medical emergencies, 1 gear disagreement, and 1 asymmetrical flap failure). Never did I have to fill out more paperwork than a NASA ASRS form (or ASAP/JSAP, the airline equivalent). Only once was I called by anybody- the one time I did need to talk to somebody, I was asked to call the tower on a landline once things were handled... the tower supervisor needed some additional info for his report. No biggie.