EC135

I am getting ready to start pilot training and wanted some advice on flight schools in the Phoenix area. I am getting ready to retire from the Air Force and have always wanted to fly for an airline. I fell in love with aviation working the ramp at Tucson international. I then joined the Air Force to get my A&P license, which I did. I worked as a crew chief for ten years and have been a recruiter for the Air Force the last 8 1/2 years. Now that I am approaching (old age) 40, I know my flying years are numbered. I want to start pilot training before I retire and work on building my flight hours to get hired by a regional. I have looked at Pan am, Westwind, and ATP. All seem to offer very similar packages. Is there anyone out there familiar with these Flight Academies? I appreciate any input anyone can give. I love this web sight and the chance to communicate with folks that have the same passion as I.

Bustin

Have you looked into CAPT? It's an Embry-Riddle run program in Flagler Beach, Florida. If you're looking to jump into regionals, it may be your best bet. They just started graduating cadets a few months ago and the regionals are eating them up. The rumors are you can't get a job at a regional without tons of flight time (CFI). Those rumors our outdated and incorrect. The program is anywhere from 14 to 16 months long and you only actually get around 250 hours of flight time. I know, that's under everyone's minimums for hiring, but the Embry-Riddle name and reputation pushes the CAPT cadets through that. It's expensive (I think at $80k right now), but if you're looking to get into the industry ASAP I think CAPT might be your best bet. The website sucks and really doesn't do the program justice, pay the school a visit if you can. You also get an MD-90 type rating out of there. Level 5 sim, very nice.

www.erau.edu/capt

WatchThis!

Help me with the math here... spend or borrow 80K to get a job that pays $15-20/hour? Just in case you haven't noticed, the pay and work rules at the majors aren't what they used to be. The logic used to be "pay your dues & maybe go in debt to get that major airline job - it will be worth it..." Well, there are fewer and fewer airlines that pay a rate and provide the days off to spend it to make the pursuit of an airline career "worth it". Also, a type rating is worthless in an interview unless you have the flight time behind it.

If it's your dream, I don't want to crush it, but you do need all the info!

finnerandr

I am a new member here and have just started flight training at Regional Airline Academy here in Deland, Fl. They have a newly opened campus in Phoenix as well. I am very impressed with the curriculum, the staff, and the fleet. The price is lower than Embry-Riddle as well. Going from zero time to the FO position in a regional is costing me about $70,000. All this in a 12-14 month program. I will graduate with between 350-500 hours total time and a type rating in an RJ. The school guarantees interviews with their partner airlines and has a 99% placement success rate as of right now. Check out their website at http://flight-schools.raajobs.com/ .


Dan

Bustin

I understand your perspective Watch This! but I think you're only half right. The cost, of course, is extremely high. If you're all about making money, aviation is not the right place for you. If you love to fly, CAPT will get you there. You won't pay back your loan making $17 an hour. But that number jumps to $25 or $33 an hour by your second year, which still probably won't pay back your loan but you're gettin there! Many people use the regionals as a stepping stone to the majors, as I plan on doing. Majors and legacy carriers are still paying their senior pilots upwards of $150k a year. Will you get the loan paid back? Obviously. As for the type rating... The MD-90 is simply a tool to prove to the regionals interested in the CAPT grads that they are more than qualified to fly (and captain) any of the jets out there today. So far, the all glass MD-90 (DC-9 type) full motion sim has been a huge selling point of the program to the regionals. The CAPT cadets are outperforming most of the new hires (with a LOT more flight hours) in both the sim sessions and the ground school at the places they've been hired because it's basically the same as the MD-90 training portion at CAPT. I think CAPT's reputation will start to change in the near future as it establishes itself more. It's still a brand new program, I think they've only graduated 20 or 30 something people. 4 of those are training on 747's right now in Miami at Focus Air. If you can get the money and you love to fly, CAPT can work for you. I believe Regional Airline Academy is very similar to CAPT, but I don't know much about it. I know they have a pretty big fleet! I've seen it down there. The only Piper planes CAPT flies are the Seminoles. The single engine stuff is all done in Diamond DA-40's. If you don't want to take my word for it, pay CAPT a visit. I expect it will be harder and harder to get into this program as time passes and we all know this is the best time to be going for those regional jobs. Hope this was helpful!

finnerandr

Just remember that it usually takes money to make money. The airline business is NOT a get rich quick scheme though. You have to be willing to make it through some tough times, and I have already accepted the fact that somewhere in my career I will struggle. Someday it will all pay off but that is not the reason why I am getting into the business. I am trying to be a pilot because I have tried so many other things in my life and never enjoyed them. I was a Marine for 4 years, worked as a Sheriffs Deputy, sold furniture for a while, and also worked for Brinks armored car service. All of those I could have made a decent living with, but I wasnt happy. The only thing that has been there through all those years is the dream of flight. So I finally sucked it up, got the loan, and am finally doing something I want to do. I am going to make this happen! I would highly recommend some serious soul searching on the part of anyone who wants to make a career from flying, as I have already done. But I wish you luck in your search and hope you find the happiness in your life that I have found in mine.


Dan

BlueSide

Just because you have 250 hours and a MD-90 type does not mean you have the ability to be a Capt. on any Jet out there today.

Sorry man... The reason airlines look for people with actual flight time is because that flight time means experience. All of you looking for the quick route should think about going out and getting some.

Bustin

Do you think flight time is more important than a quality foundation? Why would a 500 hour CFI in a Cessna be more qualified to fly right seat in a CRJ than a 250 hour pilot with a DC-9 type rating and 14 months of CRM and human factors training? I'm really asking the question. I've heard arguments on both sides. I personally think both routes work just fine, but if you're going to do it in a shorter time frame I think you need the quality to back it up. Unfortunately, that quality costs $$$. That's the difference. I could get my ratings on my own then work as a CFI for a few years getting paid, or I could sacrifice almost a year and a half of my life, go into huge debt, and do it the CAPT way. I think there's sacrifices to be made going both ways. I just hope the bitterness toward CAPT grads isn't as pervasive on the job as it is in forums on the internet. I hope the CAPT grads are judged on their performance and ability as opposed to their background. Because really, if they do perform, does it really matter what their background is? Also, I hear alot about what the "airlines" are looking for, but when the executives from those "airlines" come to CAPT, they tell everyone that the CAPT students are what they're looking for. So you can see, I hear it both ways and it seems both sides are equally as passionate.

Also, keep in mind I'm only talking about regional airlines here. Majors and legacies are a whole nother story and they are certainly NOT looking at CAPT grads. That's where the lack of flight time definately comes in.

WatchThis!

The quality foundation that you refer to is called experience, I still don't think there is a way to shortcut that. You can take just about anyone and train them rote recite "light, switch, checklist". However, a 250 hour wonder with CAPT experience has no business in the cockpit of a 121 carrier's aircraft in [insert a phase of flight that requires aeronautical experience in excess of what a 250 hour pilot can bring to the table].


There is NO shortcut to gaining experience, you want to fly like a 5000 hour pilot...go fly 5000 hours.

Bustin

What is your response if a 250 hour "wonder" flies better in sim training than a 5000 hour "quality" pilot? What phenomenon causes that? I agree there is no shortcut to gaining experience. But I also believe one person can gain better skills in the same experience if they started with a better foundation. Learning to fly a CRJ having only flown Cessna's is tough. Learning to fly a CRJ with an MD-90 type rating eases the load making it easier to learn at a quicker rate. There are a lot of things missed with the lack of experience, just as there are a lot of things missed with a lack of exposure. This is how I look at it. You take a guy that's been flying his Cessna around for his whole life, say he has 25,000 hours in that thing. Put him into a 737 on the takeoff roll and give him an engine out just after rotation. What's he gonna do? Do the same to someone type rated in a DC-9. What's he gonna do? They're going to react differently. I would argue the guy with the DC-9 type is going to take off safely and the Cessna pilot may or may not. Now, please tell me the flaws in that argument, I'm sure there are some. I understand people's reservations when they hear of 250 hour pilots flying right seat on a CRJ, but to say that they don't belong and they can't do it I think is too bold. Especially considering there are people doing it right now.