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Originally Posted by 250 or point 65
(Post 628501)
just because the field is not solid IMC, doesnt mean you cant go find it. file to a fix that has clouds above it and the ask atc for a block of airspace, like "5 miles around TIGGO 7-9000 ft". then just practice turns, climbs etc.
As far as IMC and vertigo...it's a mental game of telling yourself that the instruments are right...and verify that they are. Best of luck to the OP |
250 and I had the same problem in the midwest. This time of year it's Tstorms, and then of course you have icing. There was a two or three week span during the spring and fall where we both lived at the airport as instructors because all our instrument students were wanting to get out. Then on top of that the conditions are even more particular because you're in a single engine aircraft with a single vacuum system so you wanted the perfect conditions with an easy (safe) way out.
Happy Hunting! |
Also, when you're out building IMC confidence with an experienced pilot or CFII, keep in mind these things as well;
-The airplane doesn't know or care it's in a cloud. The instruments work just as well as they do in visual conditions. (unless you're picking up ice or something, but of course no one should be doing that without the equipment.) -Most trainers are incredibly stable, and WANT to fly right side up. When disturbed by light turbulence they WANT to return to level flight. Sometimes the best thing is to trim it properly and let go. Or at least use a very light grip with the finger tips. I've had students fly upwards of 40 NM not touching the yoke at all to build confidence in the right side-up characteristic of the aircraft. Let the aircraft designers do the hard work. -There's nothing outside that's interesting to see once you're transitioning from visual to clouds. Just like there was nothing interesting to see outside with the hood on. Don't get caught up googly eyed at the nothing in the windscreen or windows. You'll learn how to transition from instruments to the runway environment later. |
Pip, I loved those 3 weeks a year. Every one of my students was in IMC, many for the first time.
There's nothing like seeing someones face when they realize the ILS works in the clouds too! |
To all those who have replied to my post:
First of all, I’d like to thank every one of you. I have read each response carefully and have evaluated what has been said in each response. I am new to this forum so I’m not really sure how to reply to each individual person who has posted a response, as opposed to a general response for all to view. Although I’d like to learn, this pesky IFR flying thing has the priority in my quest of knowledge. With the assumption that this will be viewed by everyone, I reply with the following: First of all, I feel relieved simply by the fact of knowing that I am not the only one who feels this way. I had a former understanding / belief that with enough time, and enough ratings (i.e . ATP) , the feelings of vertigo simply cease to exist. It’s great / comforting to know that even the legacy drivers / military pilots experience the same thing from time to time, and that I’m not a substandard pilot for feeling this way. For those of you who have commented on the use of an FTD, I certainly understand your position and greatly appreciate the advice. I use an FTD regularly to keep up with the procedural / logistical tasks of IFR flying. However, my FTD is firmly located in my home, and there is no chance of getting vertigo because my inner ears know that I’m straight and lever no matter what. With that said, I’m starting to wonder if because of this device, I am subconsciously expecting a “no vertigo” situation- thus causing me more problems. Since achieving the “fatal rating” to which I have heard it referred, I have flown with my CFII to build time in the “clag”. I have expressed my concerns to him and he simply tells me to go fly in the clouds alone to build confidence. This is great in theory but in my mental state, fatal in practice. In summary, I think the best thing I have learned is as follows: Vertigo, much like s*$t happens. What I do to combat those feelings is the ultimate question. I’m a cop full-time / aspiring airline captain. In my current profession I have been consistently trained to “trust your gut and instincts” in every situation. I have had loaded guns pointed at me, and have felt minimal stress in this arena. But the thought of an ILS to minimums fills me with feelings of soiled undergarments. I feel comfortable in saying that I need to override this training with respect to instrument flying. Thank you to all. If any of you are located near Indianapolis, Indiana please let me know if you would like to fly |
Originally Posted by jrs3fk195
(Post 628796)
Since achieving the “fatal rating” to which I have heard it referred, I have flown with my CFII to build time in the “clag”. I have expressed my concerns to him and he simply tells me to go fly in the clouds alone to build confidence. This is great in theory but in my mental state, fatal in practice.
In summary, I think the best thing I have learned is as follows: Vertigo, much like s*$t happens. What I do to combat those feelings is the ultimate question. I’m a cop full-time / aspiring airline captain. In my current profession I have been consistently trained to “trust your gut and instincts” in every situation. I have had loaded guns pointed at me, and have felt minimal stress in this arena. But the thought of an ILS to minimums fills me with feelings of soiled undergarments. I feel comfortable in saying that I need to override this training with respect to instrument flying. Thank you to all. If any of you are located near Indianapolis, Indiana please let me know if you would like to fly Second, as a cop, you have learned to trust your piece and your partner. Your aircraft and instruments are you piece and partner. You must learn to trust them. And just like an new partner, it will take time. Don't rush it, but keep working at it. |
Originally Posted by ufgatorpilot
(Post 628472)
I definitely want to get some more practice in IMC as well. Unfortunately, the problem is not finding someone with a lot of experience to ride along, but finding IMC in my area.
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Originally Posted by jrs3fk195
(Post 628796)
I have had loaded guns pointed at me, and have felt minimal stress in this arena. But the thought of an ILS to minimums fills me with feelings of soiled undergarments. I feel comfortable in saying that I need to override this training with respect to instrument flying.
Just take it easy at first maybe try to get in a day where you can cruise IMC and get a visual approach somewhere. Solo IFR will be good for you, in moderation at first. |
Originally Posted by FlyJSH
(Post 628798)
Second, as a cop, you have learned to trust your piece and your partner. Your aircraft and instruments are you piece and partner. You must learn to trust them. And just like an new partner, it will take time. Don't rush it, but keep working at it.
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Originally Posted by jrs3fk195
(Post 628281)
Can anyone offer some useful advise? I'm a new Instrument Rated Pilot who did most of his flight training under foggles. My time in the clouds was limited during my training, and I never shot an "actual" approach before the checkride. Wanting to be safe, I vowed I would not fly IMC until I go comfortable with it. However, I am NOT getting comfortable. My first few minutes in the clouds are horrible. Although I maintain speed, altitude, and heading within PTS minimums, the feelings of vertigo are horrible! After a few minutes I'm OK, unless I'm flying an approach and the idea of desending, make me feel like I'm diving for the ground, (regardless of what the VSI and altimeter show) Is this normal? Or is there something I can do to make myself more comfortable and a better pilot?
If your an airline driver, and fly CAT III approaches daily, please do not respond, unless you can offer something useful. I've read too many threads that where GA pilots are belittled for wanting to learn. I know I don't have the skills of a legacy captain, don't remind me. I'm looking for help in hopes that one day I will. Vertigo happened with alot of my students when I was a flight instructor and I even get it sometimes. Believe your instruments. Some useful hints: -Never lean/look down in a turn. -Don't try to manipulate your Garmin/GPS while trying to fly IMC. Ask for vectors while trying to get your vertigo under control. -If in vertigo. Get straight and level until the felling subside. One point on something you said. You are on AirlinePilotForum.Com and you don't want Airline pilots to respond. The AOPA website might be better suited. Now if you are looking for advice from professionals then you can ask. |
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