Regional Airline Academy?
 

I recently separated from the Army.I have no previous ratings,military or civillian,but a career in aviation is my ultimate goal.Based on what I've seen,it is my belief that although the "academies" prices for training border on staggering,attending one would be the best career route(I am well aware of the limited VA benefits).
Regional airline academy is the school that I am primarily considering attending.They seem to have a good reputation,and offer quality training.I've heard good and bad about every school,and RAA appears to be
one of the better ones.
Any recommendations or advise that will aid my decision would be greatly appreciated.

I am current military.
The first thing i would do is obtain your private license from a small FBO near wherever it is you live. This will allow you to get in the air and see if you truly love flying and would like to make a career of it (i am not doubting you will love it) It will also allow you to shop around and find the best rate and the best instructor to get this accomplished. The VA will not pay for any part of this rating at all, so get it where you want to get it.

As for RAA, I have not been there but here is what I can tell you. By attending RAA it will cost you more in the long run and not put you any further ahead then the others you are competing against. What it all comes down to are ratings are ratings and hours are hours, just because an RAA grad payed 80k for his ratings and hours does not make him a more competent qualified candidate then someone who payed 20k for his ratings and hours.

Use your VA benefits! They are not as limited as you might think. Attend a school that is VA approved after your private and they will pay right around 50 percent of the cost. They say 60, but the school you train at will give you more than the minimum the FAA requires for the rating, and the VA pays 60 percent of the minimum, so the extra hours are on you. But overall 50 percent is not bad at all, especially when we are talking tens of thousands of dollars.

You do not want to start your career where your first job will pay somewhere in the 20k range per year and at the same time have a $600 dollars per month loan payment for the next 20 years. Plan on paying roughly $100 dollars per month for every 10k borrowed. Seeing how you are recently seperated from the Army you should have a little cash saved up, use that for your training.

Schools that i would reccomend that will not take all of your money.

ATP- I believe cost around 44k and will give you all of your ratings, you can instruct for them for approximately a year after your last rating and end up with around 1000 or so TT and 600 or so ME. They do not accept VA benefits though so i would shy away for just that reason alone. They are a great school though

Ari-Ben- Probably my first choice. The school charges around 31k for the same exact ratings as the others and you can still instruct after your last rating for a year and end up at the 1000 and 600 mark. They are VA approved and will walk you through the out of pocket cost. The difference between them and ATP is that Ari is not a chain as ATP has locations all over the country. Also ATP has alot more money so their equipment is better maintained and newer and their facilities are nicer. With that being said Ari has nice planes and a nice location and their equipment is more than safe and airworthy, well worth the 14k savings.

Local VA approved FBO- You might have one at your home airport where you get your private. You can get a great deal with them sometimes with block time and just stick with the small environment and the one on one attention.

RAA and others promise job placement etc. however that means nothing and i wouldnt even care about that promise. Pilots get hired all the time from all over due to their experience and the overall way they present themselves through the entire interview process. ATP has graduates hired into the regionals and others every month. Just last month i believe that Ari had i think 6 instructors hired by Xjet and i think some others at Colgan.

Just my two cents on the issue, do not get caught up with the glamor and what the recruiter tells you on the phone or how nice their website is. What i looked at for my ratings was...Are they VA approved? If the government is offering it, i am taking it. Are they the cheapest? A rating is a rating is a rating. I can fly the worlds most beat up cessna 120 taildragger at a rundown FBO just as well as someone at a large academy who is flying a 2006 172 skyhawk SP with Garmin G1000, and the regionals and others....they will not care what you flew. Since they do not care where you flew, what you flew, or anything else of the like why not save all the money you can. Your Commercial Multi engine rating will not say where you got it or how much you paid. Let your skill show for itself, that is what will pay off at the interviews.

RAA is by far the most expensive of the academies. They make you get an RJ type rating which is totally unnecessary, and a waste of over $20k.
I would do your training at an FBO near your home. You don't have to move.

My recommendation would be to do your licenses and ratings at an FBO. It will save you at least $20,000 (Perhaps 30-50k at RAA) for the same training. At an academy, you will pay $55 an hour for instruction. At an FBO you will pay about $35 an hour for instruction. The flip side, when you want to instruct to timebuild, acadmies will only pay you $14 an hour. The FBO will pay you $25-35 an hour. BIG DIFFERENCE! At an academy, you will pay $105 for an old cessna, while at an FBO you will pay $80-90 for an old cessna. At an academy you will pay over $200 an hour for a multi, while those cost about $150 at an FBO. As crazy as these prices are, the place where these academies make their money is ground school. If you take the hours of ground school divided by the total cost, it works out to like $20 an hour for a class of 10-20 people. That's too much! And $20 is a very conservative number. At American Flyers, it is $80 an hour for classroom instruction. That is more than classes cost at Harvard on Stanford!!!
Also, at RAA they make you get an RJ type rating that costs a STAGGERING $20,000+. This is unnecesary. There is absolutely no need for this. When you get hired at any airline, they will pay for you to get this type rating. Do not pay your own money for a type.

That is why I recommend an FBO over an airline academy. It is much cheaper, you will make more money, and the training can be accomplished in the SAME amount of time. Find an instructor who is available 7 days a week, and who does not have a busy schedule. Tell him how often you want to fly, and schedule plenty in advance, so you can fly as often as you are able. FBO's are the way to go.

I'll second what Ryane says. The "academies" aren't worth it. It gets pretty hard to pay off $70k in loans when you're only making $20k per year and have to live on that as well.

Go to a local flight school, on your schedule. Pay for as much of the training outright as you can.

Be advised that there are lots of FBO operations out there that are just as shady as the pilot factories. You're going to be spending a ton of money no matter which route you take so do your homework and find the school that is the best fit for you.

Wrong on both counts.

Airlines expect you to have licenses and a certain amount of flight experience (and a 4-year degree for the better ones). Where you get the licenses doesn't matter at all unless you were a military pilot. Why pay a huge chunk of change when you can get the same thing in your home town where you can live with family, do it at your own pace, and maybe hold down a job?

The unfortunate reality is that very few of the high-dollar "glossy-brochure" flight schools offer a better product:

1) Their instructors are the same low-time instructors you would find anywhere else...if they were highly experienced, high time CFIs they would quit and go fly for an airline, or go freelance and make $50/hr instead of $10/hr. You might get a high-time CFI who happens to have too many DUI's...

2) Their airplanes are same as anywhere else. The only difference is that they spend your outrageous tuition on new paint jobs, so the airplanes look good on the outside to impress the next batch of potential suckers. In the future you might see some schools getting glass-cockpit training airplanes, which might actually be beneficial to an aspiring commercial pilot.

3) They often brag about maintenance...well the FAA regulates what Mx has to be done, and pretty everybody does exactly that. There might be a few small operations that try to take Mx shortcuts, but they usually end up losing all of their licenses and facing serious fines.


The reality is that they try to convince you that by paying more, you get a better product. What actually happens is that they sell you the same or worse product as smaller schools and FBO's, and pocket the huge price difference...very lucrative.

I understand that as an ex-military guy you naturally find a structured, apparently organized training process to be more attractive than a small operation, but the costs vs. benefit are just too far out of line.

If you disregard what people are telling you here, I can almost guarantee that in 4 years when you are spending every dime of your regional FO salary on loan repayments you will know exactly what we are talking about and will REALLY wish you had listened to the voice of experience...my hindsight is 20/20 !

I stand corrected,thanks for all the help with RAA.Anyone have any other info on schools worth looking into?

Avoid any place with "academy" in the name unless it's preceded by the words United States xxxx xxxx.

local FBOs
 

It's less than ATP but I haven't heard anything about them...I'm not trying to ruffle your feather - did you go there or know the owners?

To the original question in the thread - yeah you can go to a local FBO and save money but local FBO you find most of the CFIs seem to care more about their logbook vice getting you your rating.

Go somewhere where you can get all your ratings for a fixed price in a fixed amount of time(www.allatps.com).

You don't want to waste your time (in some cases years ) trying to get the ME time or 1,000 hours TT at any local mom and pop FBO (hang out there once you retire from 121 )

Don't worry about GI BILL benefits for flight training - most places adjust their rates to suck your money , if you're military or a veteran their 'gi joe' rate is adjusted to get the lions share your cash.

GI BILL is better spent on an education. You don't need more than a BA/BS - if you're interested in the Majors or have the time / money get an MBA from any of these on-line places...

-LAFF

Rick ,

I agree with your post. However, I've been burned at local FBOs by CFIs and crappy service so many times that I was just glad to be done with my PPL after going thru 3 FBO and 6 CFIs that I refuse to train at another one again. I'll work an extra 10 years so I can front load the training at a place like ATPs before I step foot in an FBO. I hate even driving by one...

-LAFF