Rate/Radius of Turn
02-08-2010 | 07:14 AM
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Rate/Radius of Turn
While studying the FAA's Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical knowledge, I came across two concepts that I know to be true but I can't explain why.
1. Why does the Rate of turn decrease when airspeed increases?
2. Why does the Radius of turn increase when the airspeed increases?
1. Why does the Rate of turn decrease when airspeed increases?
2. Why does the Radius of turn increase when the airspeed increases?
02-08-2010 | 08:55 AM
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From: ATP, CFI etc.
You have to get into the math a little bit to understand this one, and it has to do with this equation. I put in some dots spacing.
R = V-squared.....
.....g * tan(theta)
where:
R= radius of turn
g= gravity
V= velocity of airplane (speed)
theta= bank angle (zero is no bank)
So, in a level turn weight must equal gravity, and bank angle is constant as well by definition, then what must happen to R with a change in speed (V)?
R = V-squared.....
.....g * tan(theta)
where:
R= radius of turn
g= gravity
V= velocity of airplane (speed)
theta= bank angle (zero is no bank)
So, in a level turn weight must equal gravity, and bank angle is constant as well by definition, then what must happen to R with a change in speed (V)?
02-08-2010 | 09:25 AM
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From: ATP, CFI etc.
Load factor (L/W) does change with speed in constant bank angle level turns, but it does not affect the turn radius, only speed does.
[edit] "shdw" points out in a later post (#22) that this statement was incorrect. Not sure what I was thinking...
[edit] "shdw" points out in a later post (#22) that this statement was incorrect. Not sure what I was thinking...
Last edited by Cubdriver; 02-12-2010 at 11:22 AM. Reason: correction
02-08-2010 | 01:41 PM
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From: Curator at Static Display
Practical Example
Gestrich19:
Here's a practical example for you, as this confused me in ground school, too.
Picture yourself walking down the street. You suddenly see a store you want to go into, and make a sharp turn and go inside.
Now, try doing the same thing, running as fast as you can.
Obviously, the radius is bigger for the runner, and he also takes longer to make the turn. That is radius and rate, respectively.
It confused me in ground school/early flying because I told myself: "But the faster I go, the more 'g' that can be generated!"
True, but it doesn't help. I had this discussion with a student recently, and I proved via the lift formula and turn radius formula that for the same angle of attack, the turn radius is a constant. But that is a different side to this discussion.
Here's a practical example for you, as this confused me in ground school, too.
Picture yourself walking down the street. You suddenly see a store you want to go into, and make a sharp turn and go inside.
Now, try doing the same thing, running as fast as you can.
Obviously, the radius is bigger for the runner, and he also takes longer to make the turn. That is radius and rate, respectively.
It confused me in ground school/early flying because I told myself: "But the faster I go, the more 'g' that can be generated!"
True, but it doesn't help. I had this discussion with a student recently, and I proved via the lift formula and turn radius formula that for the same angle of attack, the turn radius is a constant. But that is a different side to this discussion.
02-08-2010 | 01:47 PM
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From: Curator at Static Display
Half-Right
The first part of your statement is correct: the horizontal component is what counts for turn performance (assuming you are making a horizontal turn, otherwise, a more general and correct statement would be the component in the direction of turn, such as in a loop, immelmann, split-S, pitchback, or sliceback).
But in the horizontal example, the total vector (or 'g'), which is what you feel, is not the horizontal component. Total is vector addition of horizontal and vertical components. So, your equation should say Load Factor = Horizontal + Vertical.
02-08-2010 | 01:58 PM
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From: FAA 'Flight Check'
Gestrich19:
Here's a practical example for you, as this confused me in ground school, too.
Picture yourself walking down the street. You suddenly see a store you want to go into, and make a sharp turn and go inside.
Now, try doing the same thing, running as fast as you can.
Obviously, the radius is bigger for the runner, and he also takes longer to make the turn. That is radius and rate, respectively.
It confused me in ground school/early flying because I told myself: "But the faster I go, the more 'g' that can be generated!"
True, but it doesn't help. I had this discussion with a student recently, and I proved via the lift formula and turn radius formula that for the same angle of attack, the turn radius is a constant. But that is a different side to this discussion.
Here's a practical example for you, as this confused me in ground school, too.
Picture yourself walking down the street. You suddenly see a store you want to go into, and make a sharp turn and go inside.
Now, try doing the same thing, running as fast as you can.
Obviously, the radius is bigger for the runner, and he also takes longer to make the turn. That is radius and rate, respectively.
It confused me in ground school/early flying because I told myself: "But the faster I go, the more 'g' that can be generated!"
True, but it doesn't help. I had this discussion with a student recently, and I proved via the lift formula and turn radius formula that for the same angle of attack, the turn radius is a constant. But that is a different side to this discussion.
USMCFLYR
02-08-2010 | 02:58 PM
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From: USAF
02-08-2010 | 03:03 PM
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From: USAF
Ryan:
The first part of your statement is correct: the horizontal component is what counts for turn performance (assuming you are making a horizontal turn, otherwise, a more general and correct statement would be the component in the direction of turn, such as in a loop, immelmann, split-S, pitchback, or sliceback).
But in the horizontal example, the total vector (or 'g'), which is what you feel, is not the horizontal component. Total is vector addition of horizontal and vertical components. So, your equation should say Load Factor = Horizontal + Vertical.
The first part of your statement is correct: the horizontal component is what counts for turn performance (assuming you are making a horizontal turn, otherwise, a more general and correct statement would be the component in the direction of turn, such as in a loop, immelmann, split-S, pitchback, or sliceback).
But in the horizontal example, the total vector (or 'g'), which is what you feel, is not the horizontal component. Total is vector addition of horizontal and vertical components. So, your equation should say Load Factor = Horizontal + Vertical.
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