mike734

My nephew is about to solo and has commited to get his pvt. He makes good money and can afford a small trainer. I suggested he should look in to buying a small trainer to save money and assure a plane is available on short notice.

I would like to hear stories from anyone who's done this. What advice do you have?

Cubdriver

Another recent thread-

Instruction in student-owned aircraft

N9373M

+1

At one time we were charging $32/wet for a 172 in our flying club (1990s)

JamesNoBrakes

I've run the costs before, and you take what it costs per/hr to rent your airplane at the local FBO, decrease it by $5-10/hr max, and that's about all your saving. There are some things that the FBO may be able to do more efficiently and negate that (such as fuel deals, etc), but there also could be some stuff you do if you are especially aviation-savvy, such as buy one that can run off of mogas. The general idea is that buying a plane is almost never economical, and that's not why you do it. You do it because it's fun and cool. If he REALLY wants to buy a plane, go for it, if he wants to keep costs down for learning, find an FBO that rents out C150s/C152s. If there is nothing in the local area, then MAYBE, but again, you'd have to be doing it partly just because you want to build some time and have your own airplane. Just remember that you pay for the time one way or another. A friend sold a C150 for MORE than he bought it, but that success story is not to be used to judge future success, if the engine needed an overhaul or there was some major repair that was needed (and you just plan on that with an old airplane), it could easily turn out badly.

NZNV

One option is a lease back. The flight school I work at has mostly lease back airplanes. Many of the owners are working on their ratings and then the airplanes are flying while they are not. Most of the economics work out so that they get to fly their lessons for the cost of gas and instructor. The down sides are that if your airplane is booked then you can't have it and your plane will get a little more worn. I don't recommend it for people who have OCD. Also for this to work out you need to be in an area where there is need for the airplane and buy a trainer, C152 or C172 will rent the best especially if your avionics are good.

chrisreedrules

+1

good advice... the school I trained at did exactly this^^^

gold

Leasebacks are a terrible investment. Most aircraft owners are lucky if they break even on the deal. Your aircraft has to be flying a lot in order to turn a marginal profit and if your airplane is always flying that leaves less time for the you to fly it. Unscheduled maintenance is always the kicker that gets people. Insurance is also a high cost, for a 172 one could expect to pay 3000-5000K per year. If you owned a 172 and flew it yourself, insurance would be closer to 1000K depending on your experience/flight time. Smaller flight schools prefer lease backs because it places more risk on the owner of the airplane and less risk for the flight school. Most people use lease backs for tax reasons and to shelter money rather than turning a profit on the aircraft rental.

SkyHigh

I have owned several planes in my life and there are other ways to look at the problem.

A good accountant would have you add into every hour for engine replacement, buy 100LL at the pump prices and $90/hour to have the windows washed by an A&P.

In my experience aircraft ownership can be much less. There is a lot that an owner can do in regards to maintenance. In addition there are mechanics out there who will do $300 owner assisted annuals.

Where I live I can get quality alcohol free autogas. The plane even runs much better on it. That cuts my fuel costs nearly in half.

Insurance for a 150 can range anywhere between $4000 and 500 per year. It pays to shop around and to buy only what you need.

Lastly airplanes are investments. During normal times they appreciate in value. I bought a seaplane once for $15,500 flew 500 hours off it and sold it 13 years later for $36,500. If I still had it I could sell it today for over 40K. The appreciation erased all the expenses I ever had including fuel, so I essentially flew it for free.

Skyhigh

NZNV

You post doesn't make any sense, how is it a terrible deal if you break even and are able to get your training completed? The whole point of the thread is getting training costs down. If you can buy an airplane and break even, or even loose a little but your training is paid for than you have just come out better than the other two options of renting or buying. I never said you would make a profit only that your training could be cut down to fuel and instructor costs. It is a great investment if done properly with the right school and for the right reasons. It is working for the owners at my flight school because many of them have been there for years and I talk to them about it, they are close to their expectations.

gold

You misunderstood me. Most are lucky to break even on a lease their leasebacks and that's not including expenses related to personal use of the aircraft.

FWIW, I speak from experience and I'm simply trying to caution the OP about this practice call "leasebacks." Most aircraft owners and flight school owners will not share their books with their CFIs or clients and try to keep them in the dark about their money issues.

The average Joe will in all likely hood not be able to purchase an aircraft, lease it to a flight school and earn enough profit from the rental agreement to pay for his own flight training in the aircraft. With that being said, there are several different types of leasebacks and many different arrangements. It's not worth debating.