You wouldn't do it?
 

Hello, I am a 31 year old male that has always been fascinated with aircraft. That is all I have ever wanted to do when I grew up. But after talking to a Marine recruiter when I was in High School that said I didn't make the grades to be a pilot, I kept the dream to myself. Now 13 years later it is still what I want to do! I have a good Mon. - Fri. job making a descent 37k a year. With no education other then a little Tech School.

From what I read on this site most of you wouldn't trade that in to be in the pilot seat!?

Thanks for the input

You could probably do better than $37K in the regional world in the long run, but things to consider:

$40K+ initial training costs.
2-4 years of training/cfi work before you get the regional job.
Hiring could slow before then (especially if retirement age changes to 65)
Poor quality of life starting out at the regional.
Low pay as a cfi and as a junior regional FO.
No college = No major airline job ever.

Do your homework carefully or you will get scr*wed trying to do this.

I wouldn't trade a seat in the cockpit to do whatever the hell you are doing.

what cockpit are you in?

He's in the wannabe cockpit, which is the best of all of them. It's powered by future career delusions and youthful arrogance, and the windscreen is rose-colored glass.

Do it
 

I am in the same kind of boat. I was 28. Married. No plans for kids. Great Monday-Friday job. Mid $40's for pay. Easy IT job. I spent the last 4 years at another IT job working my rear off being field based earning low 50's working days/nights/holidays. I wasn't happy. Jumped ship to the current job. I now realize I don't like being in an office all day. I was sitting back in my office fhair on MSFS 2004 one day with my CH yoke and pedals when I made a comment about how I would love to fly...my wife looked at me and said either do it or stop talking about it. I jumped. Living your dream is an amazing feeling. You only live once. We know it will be a rough 2-4 years and a prepped for it. I double majored in college and have a nice shiney degree to hang on the wall that I will never use. Until I started flight training I was working to live. I am doing ATP's self paced program. Started May 5 with nada. Now November 1st and I have my private single and multi working on my instrument. I only go 4 days a week so it's slower than drinking from a fire hose. Loving every minute of it.

Go for it.

I'm a 29yo mom of 3 and if I can do it, you can too.

LOL...

Whatever you do don't get a 100K+ ERAU education...Plenty of people out there with no regrets...

Look into www.allatps.com - you don't need anything more than the 90 day or 10 month self=paced. I hear 90 days guys have the scheduling priority. Overall the best deal out there...

Stay away from FBOs - they are a waste of time and depressing...

-LAFF

Yeah getting my CFI training from a guy who had trained exactly 100 people for the CFI before me was a total waste of time.

Plus, he had worked for the FAA and the Air Force at Edwards AFB, so obviously he had no real world experience.

Gosh that was a depressing waste of time.:confused:

What is wrong with FBOs?

FBOs...
 

Can can get screwed fast by management and time building CFIs. Your best bet is to finish as quickly as possible and get working at a academy / established full-time flight school like ATP (www.allatps.com)...

The CFIs I've run across at FBOs were depressed / poorly paid / and so use to being abused it made me feel guilty as a consumer...I was glad to be done with my PPL and out of that place...

-LAFF

Not all FBO's are that shi!tty. I say go to an FBO you can get your ratings fast and somewhat cheaper. BTW as far as crappy CFI pay, i talked to a CFI at allatps who told me they make a set salary of 1 thousand a month. The salary thing can be good but I knew an instructor at an FBO pulling in 20k a year.

What to do?
 

I'm finding out I'm like everyone alse. I'm the guy in grade school that could look up and tell you what kind of airplane was flying over head. By the time I was in college I could tell you the operating specs and who designed the plane. I flew model airplanes when I was 15 and flew in small private planes with my Dad and Grandfather up until a few years ago.

When I graduated I didn't know what I wanted to do so I looked into joining the Navy and becoming a pilot. My dream was always to fly. I went through all the exams and physicals for the officer program and just before I was going to sign up I got a job offer from a steel company. I decided that the military life wasn't for me and started working. To make a long story short I was making $60,000 a year when i decided to leave last July. The job wasn't satisfing, and living in Riverside , Ca wasn't my dream location. The real story was that I had been thinking of leaving for about a year when I was promoted and bought a condo. I met a great girl in February. She was transfering to Berkeley in the fall. I thought this would be the perfect oportunity to make a change in my life because I knew I wasn't happy where I was. I don't look back at my decision as a mistake because I left the company right when things started to go down the toilet and I sold my condo right at the height of the real-estate boom. I came away with $40,000 in the bank.:)

When I got up to nothern California I started looking for jobs but just couldn't get excited about anything. I went down to the local airport and asked around about flight training. The more I thought about it the more I thought that being a pilot would be a dream job for me. In the past I never had the guts or the money. I had taken some glider lessons but never really jumped into flying. I signed up for ATP's 60 day PPL and their 90 day career pilot program. I thought I had finally found what I was ment to do in life.

I'm having second thoughts. I've been reading through posts and threads and most of what I see in negative. No one seems to think that being a pilot for the airlines is the way to go. No money, no family life etc. I've got my budget in place. I'm going to have to spend all of the money I made off the condo and borrow another $25,000 from my parents.

Can someone please tell me if I'm crazy or are my fears not a reality? Is being a pilot a dream job and economical or is it a fantisy. I've talked to one guy who just got hired by a regional and he made $16,000 his 1st year. HOW DO YOU SUPPORT YOUR SELF??????? THIS SEEMS CRAZY TO ME.

From what i've learned, it's a big risk. I have no idea how stable the industry is going to be by the time i'm well into it. Plenty of pilots started out in a high paying industry and are now furloughed , lost their pensions, and suffered paycut after paycut. The thought of that happening to me near the end of a career is scary. Personally, I want to either do expat flying, or get on with a good fractional airline one day. In the end its all a risk and the future is uncertain.

Wouldn't the numbers all equal out? The FBOs may only have 1 student to every 10 then the flight school has, but then they would have the same number of CFIs as well!

So I would never make $100k a year without a degree?

You shouldn't do it !!
 

You are a mother of three?? What are you thinking? Rarely do I directly tell people they shouldn't do something but to be a mother of small children and pursuing a flying career is flat irresponsible and wrong!

We all make choices in life. With each one others are crossed off as opportunity costs. You left behind the right to be able to have a flying career years ago. Even fathers of young children should not consider starting a flying career. It is irresponsible at best and outright family abandonment at worst.

I don't know you or what your actual job is. Perhaps you are a dispatcher, however for your families sake I pray that you are not a pilot. Sometimes I think people take on aviation as a passive aggressive way to shed unwanted friends, spouses and family.

All of us need to be Mom's and Dad's first of all!

Skyhigh

Money
 

Most of you will never see your money again.

I am not trying to be mean. Look around a little. In flight school we all like to fool ourselves into thinking that we are making a good "career" choice when in reality most of us are taking a little play vacation. A fantasy camp vacation that will have a nice payment each month to remind us of that 90 day mental breakdown.

The facts are out there. Pay is low, competition is fierce. Those of you who already have good jobs will be going back to them. The unlucky will learn how low their standards of living can go until they quit.

Flying is fun and training is the best but it is not in preparation for a REAL profession. It is expensive play disguised as serious job training. We can take the glossy brochures home to our parents and spouses and con them into thinking it is real job training. We can also con ourselves but it is a farce.

Every year the military produces 11,000 pilots, Each year something like 30,000 commercial pilot licences are issued. There are not even close to enough good jobs to go around.

We all love to fly but don't let that love delude you into blowing your life. Stop, think, and if you have any money left buy a Cessna 150 and fly on Saturdays.

Sorry to be so harsh but you guys have been strung along for too long now.



SkyHigh

Only you can answer this question. In five years will you be able to look up and see the beautiful contrails overhead and accept the fact that you chose something safe and secure? If, on the other hand you would have regrets that the person in the cockpit is not you, perhaps you should go for it. I personally think the anquish and regrets for an entire lifetime are far worse than making $16,000 your first year. Sure there is a price to pay and risk involved, but how do you accomplish anything truly worthwhile without either? If Benjamin Franklin, Orville and Wilbur, Thomas Jefferson and many others said "this seems crazy to me", we would all be living very different lives. Airlines will continue to hire pilots to fly their airplanes. The question is: Will you be the one flying them or the one on the ground wishing you were? Good Luck!

Calpilot is right...At least you made the right decision to attend ATP. Which location? Sac? Don't look back now - just work at ATP -get your ME time and apply to the regionals. Girfriends come and go...I should know I lost one in the WTC. I found another one that walked away and across the Brooklyn bridge that morning...Life is full of surprises...

_LAFF

Consequences
 

Calcapt,

I hate to contradict your brilliant post, however it is often the case that famous people in history lead train wreck personal lives. It demands a high price to achieve greatness. People need to realize what they will have to give up in order to become a Ben Franklin or Abe Lincoln. The 9 to 5 stooge gets a lot in return for supplanting a few dreams. The pain of a failed dream will fade over time however a failed life will haunt you to the grave.

In my opinion often the pursuit of youthful frivolous dreams is natures way of culling the herd.

SkyHigh

Do you get a commission from ATP? In all of your post's you mention ATP but have not yet told me why I should attend ATP & not learn from the FBOs!

No - nothing from ATP...Research their product and search for them on this and other forums. Their product stands on its own merit.

-LAFF

Out of all of the big schools, ATP seems to do a decent job of entry-level training without ripping you off.

But before you relocate to one of their facilities, do check your local FBO's...if you can live at home, do your training, and get a cfi job at the local patch that may be a better option. You have to be careful, there are a few great FBO's/local schools and a whole bunch of not-so-great ones.

I have done a little research (more to do before I decide) & I'm not knocking them, but I still don't understand how they would be any better to go to ATP then it would an FBO. Learning is learning correct? I'm not saying that the FBOs are better… I don’t have the slightest clue… Just yesterday I didn’t even know what "FBO" was. I'm just trying to get someone to tell me why he or she thinks ATP is better then FBOs or any other school for that matter.

I met CFIs at FBOs that had been at it for years. This was not in small town america but in the SF bay area. In fact, my CFI when I did my PPL had a little over 1,000 hours after 6 years trying to make it...I should say he didn't play his cards right and refused to move / relocate to an area where he could build more time. He basically gave up on aviation and is now a cop. He dreams of one day making it to the departments helicopter ops division.

As always, R777, says it better than I could. I'm bringing emotion into it...

Sincerely,
LAFF

ATP is NOT for everybody. I myself know that I dont learn that fast. No way I could get a CFI, II, and MEI in 14 days.
Ther eare very good FBO's out there. AL FBO's are not created equal. AL FBO's do not have depressed CFI's. Find a flight school or find an older experienced CFI that enjoys teaching people to fly. They are the best

Still not sure
 

Let me ask you guys this. How many of you (airlines pilots/ex-airline pilots) found out after following your dreams to become a pilot that your dream was ruined by the low pay and lack of time with your family. I mean I love flying but I'm afraid that going into debt and living in poverty for the next 4 years will turn flying into a bad dream.


This statement might be out of line but being a former manager of over 50 employees why don't the pilots get rid of the unions? Is competition for jobs so bad that they have to lock in low pay rates. Does airline management put down pilots that much. Not to be a union basher. It just seems to me that a pilot that puts over $50,000 into training on top of a college education and then operates one of the most complicated pieces of machinery that man can develope, along with holding the lives of all his passangers in his hands should make more money then a high school drop out. Or am I wrong? Do pay rates increase fast after the 1st year and you can afford to support your self?

I'm just looking for some input. If seems very foggy to me how people are surviving and why don't pilots demand to get paid accordingly for the highly professional jobs they do?

Unions
 

Pilots are plentiful and will work for peanuts. You are a prime example of this. It takes three years to become a licensed plumber and two years to be able to professionally cut hair, but 90 days to become a licensed commercial pilot.

Even now I'll bet that you could start and airline and offer minimum wages and easily be able to fill the classroom.

Without unions the pay would free fall. A pilots only value to the company is the cost of their initial training.

SkyHigh

All FBO's are NOT the same. I hear a lot about CFI's at FBO's. I have been around aviation for ten years and at the airport I fly out of we have two major FBO's, Raytheon and Hill Aircraft. Neither place offers flight training. They are purely a service providing fuel and jet service. I have never seen a CFI at an FBO before.

Northwind:

In reading your post thoroughly, I can tell you that you do not have the passion and commitment to become an airline pilot. The airline pay rates are posted on this site. There is enough information to fill a big barn here and certainly ample for you to make some decisions. The world is full of people who talk of doing things, but never do. You have been given input and yet you continue to wallow in this please help me decide trough. You have already established your fatalistic attitude and distaste for the industry and you haven't even got here. I mean absolutely no disrespect to you but you will save yourself alot of money and countless wasted hours by pursuing something else that you can commit to. The people who will succeed in aviation already know it, and are out working to make it happen rather than asking for others to convince them to do so. I am sure you are a great guy. Go for what you love and for what you are willing to sacrifice for. Stay out of aviation!

Yup, mom of three and proud of it SkyHigh. I've been a stay at home mom raising them for years, and now that they are older, why should I be at home picking my nose instead of doing something I love? They are well taken care of and loved, and if i'm not here with them, their dad is. Not a bad situation at all. I was a flight attendant until I had #2 and it worked out beautifully.

I appreciate your post and see where you are coming from, but like you said, you don't know me, my circumstances or my kids - so you really can't judge. Peace out brutha.

Correct. This is good advice, especially coming from someone who actually made it to the airlines. To succeed in aviation, you have to be the go-getter type. Ignoring the obstacles ahead and ignoring those who try and deviate you. Everything requires sacrifices; nothing is going to be handed down to us.

I like the way you think CalCapt, it is clear why you made it into the major's. I want to become an Airline Pilot, and I can see past the hard years in the regionals (like someone said, regionals are not the pinnacle of our careers, they are stepping stone’s for something better). I one day hope to be able to fly 787's for Continental or any of the legacy carriers. :D

Say what/
 

Sky:

I agree, the post was brilliant. My greatness, and great wisdom I might add, has been achieved with little personal destruction, but did require sacrifice and hard work. Despite your assertion that the pain of failed dreams fade, I respectfully disagree. One only has to look at you to prove otherwise. You have convinced yourself that the abandonment of this career was in your best interest, and perhaps it was; however, the pain of being out of the cockpit is manifest in almost all of your posts. I am happy you have found success in other venues, but don't try to convince me that you don't miss sitting where I do. Sky, you and I are friends, and I strongly agree with you that this career is not for everyone. There are however, many who inquire on this very forum, who will go on to achieve what most would call dreams. Their quest will be achieved and their commitment and sacrifice will pay off. There are others, who for whatever reason, will not make it. We hear some of those sad stories here, including yours. There are many here who have made it and it should be through their inspiration and advice, combined with those like yourself, that newbies balance out their decisions about getting into this profession. I hope this finds you well up in the nippy Northwest.

A smart man!!!
 

Your ability to recognize the rightness in my thinking will almost assure you a seat at the majors. I would love to have you as my FO and show you how to be a great captain like myself!!!:p

I don't plan on staying out of aviation. I don't mind you judging me, but I've been successful in all parts of my life and I've done that by finding out all parts to the story and that is why I'm asking your advice. I may have been venting a little too or just worried from what I've reading here. My passion for flying goes far beyond what I could communicate on a web site.

I'm glad to hear that there are people out there living the dream. That's what I wanted to know. I would hate to think that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Although I have not made up my mind altogether I do appriacate everyone's input. I do have a passion for flying I'm just trying to find out if being an airline pilot will fullful my passion. Until I came on this site and read what some of the pilots are posting I thought the life of a pilot would be challenging but would pay off in the end. There are always different ways of finding what you want. Both my father and grandfather flew small planes and loved every minute. I can't tell you how big the smile on my face was when I soloed for the 1st time in a glider. Who knows maybe my fate is to make a lot of money and buy my own plane and bypass the poverty stage.

I think there are a lot of guys out there like me that have a passion for flying but don't want to distroy that passion by sacraficing everything we have. I wonder if there are pilots out there that put all their time and money into their career to find it wasn't what they had dreamed about but it was to late to turn back because they were in debt and had no where alse to go. You don't have to be a don't hold everthing back kind of guy to find your love in life and be successful at it.

I think that is probably one of the fairest assessments I have seen on the boards.

BTW, the Jets you fly, is it just like playing Pac Man???

no regret
 

SkyHigh you don't honour your nick name putting the people always down;) , I disagree also with what you said to MileHighMama ....wow how easly you judge the people and try to discourage them :mad:
MHM I think you are a hero...you are an example for all of us and for your children first.:p
favila008 do you know what your name means in italian? i think it fits you.