ATP Flight School
12-07-2012, 03:40 AM
#11
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: EMB-145 FO
Posts: 20
I went to ATP and had a good experience. I had a good instructor and the airplanes were in good condition, especially the new Seminoles. I was offered to instruct with them but decided to instruct at my local FBO since it was closer to my house and I knew the people there.
If you decide to go to ATP you make of it what you will. If you study hard and are motivated it will be good. But don't think that ATP will land you a regional job anymore than any other flight school. The only advantage they offer is name recognition and multi flight time. It is nice ALREADY having the minimum multi PIC time that most airlines are looking for. And what others have said is quite true, you will save money at a local school.
So do I recommend? Sure. Just know all the facts and what you are getting in to.
If you decide to go to ATP you make of it what you will. If you study hard and are motivated it will be good. But don't think that ATP will land you a regional job anymore than any other flight school. The only advantage they offer is name recognition and multi flight time. It is nice ALREADY having the minimum multi PIC time that most airlines are looking for. And what others have said is quite true, you will save money at a local school.
So do I recommend? Sure. Just know all the facts and what you are getting in to.
12-07-2012, 05:49 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,982
Originally Posted by DALFA
I looked at ATP a few months ago but realized that $64,000 from 0 to CFI is WAY too much money.
They advertise $59,999 but you still have to add about $4,000 for "examiners fees"...so $64,000 it is. What do you end up with??? 220 hours of actual flight time.
So this is what I suggest.
You can go from 0 to Commercial in under 1/2 that cost.
I'll use what i'm doing for an example.
Right now I fly out of APA. I found a CFI who is available full-time and knock out my ratings by flying every day.
C-172 cost = $95 (roughly)
Piper Warrior cost = $90 (roughly)
Multi engine BE-95 Travelair = $190 (roughly)
CFI cost = $35 per hour
PPL cost...
Flight hours = 40 x $95 (C172) = $3,800
CFI for 40 hours = $35 x 40 = $1,400
Books + Checkride = $700
Total PPL cost = $5,900
Time building from 40 hours to 80 hours = $95 x 40 = $3,800
Instrument rating....
40 hours in the Warrior = $90 x 40 = $3,600
40 hours with a CFI = $35 x 40 = $1,400
Books + Checkride = $700
Total instrument = $5,700
Multi-engine rating...
10 hours in the Travelair = $190 x 10 = $1,900
10 hours with a CFI = $35 x 10 = $350
Books + Checkride = $600
Total Multi = $2,850
Timebuild to get you from 130 to 150 in a C172 = $95 x 20 = $1,900
timebuild to get you from 150 to 240 in the Travelair = $190 x 90 = $17,100 (this can be cut in 1/2 if you're willing to fly with someone else and log "hood" time and "safety pilot" time)
Commercial AMEL....
10 hours in the Travelair = $190 x 10 = $1,900
15 hours with a CFI = $35 x 15 = $475
Total Commercial = $2,375
Total cost:
PPL = $5,900
Instrument = $5,700
Multi = $2,850
Commercial = $2,375
Time-building = $22,800
Total cost = $39,625
Total hours = 250 (100 Multi)
Like I said...at ATP most of the time building in the Multi is shared time...here you're actually flying the plane yourself. you can share time here and save $9,500 if you want.
In the above scenario you end up with 30 more flight hours, you don't have your CFI (it's not that expensive) but you save about $25,000.
Do you see how ATP is making loads of $$$$ off of people?
They advertise $59,999 but you still have to add about $4,000 for "examiners fees"...so $64,000 it is. What do you end up with??? 220 hours of actual flight time.
So this is what I suggest.
You can go from 0 to Commercial in under 1/2 that cost.
I'll use what i'm doing for an example.
Right now I fly out of APA. I found a CFI who is available full-time and knock out my ratings by flying every day.
C-172 cost = $95 (roughly)
Piper Warrior cost = $90 (roughly)
Multi engine BE-95 Travelair = $190 (roughly)
CFI cost = $35 per hour
PPL cost...
Flight hours = 40 x $95 (C172) = $3,800
CFI for 40 hours = $35 x 40 = $1,400
Books + Checkride = $700
Total PPL cost = $5,900
Time building from 40 hours to 80 hours = $95 x 40 = $3,800
Instrument rating....
40 hours in the Warrior = $90 x 40 = $3,600
40 hours with a CFI = $35 x 40 = $1,400
Books + Checkride = $700
Total instrument = $5,700
Multi-engine rating...
10 hours in the Travelair = $190 x 10 = $1,900
10 hours with a CFI = $35 x 10 = $350
Books + Checkride = $600
Total Multi = $2,850
Timebuild to get you from 130 to 150 in a C172 = $95 x 20 = $1,900
timebuild to get you from 150 to 240 in the Travelair = $190 x 90 = $17,100 (this can be cut in 1/2 if you're willing to fly with someone else and log "hood" time and "safety pilot" time)
Commercial AMEL....
10 hours in the Travelair = $190 x 10 = $1,900
15 hours with a CFI = $35 x 15 = $475
Total Commercial = $2,375
Total cost:
PPL = $5,900
Instrument = $5,700
Multi = $2,850
Commercial = $2,375
Time-building = $22,800
Total cost = $39,625
Total hours = 250 (100 Multi)
Like I said...at ATP most of the time building in the Multi is shared time...here you're actually flying the plane yourself. you can share time here and save $9,500 if you want.
In the above scenario you end up with 30 more flight hours, you don't have your CFI (it's not that expensive) but you save about $25,000.
Do you see how ATP is making loads of $$$$ off of people?
That cost for the rentals is also well below the "average", and people aren't raking in money on rentals. I'd be highly suspicious of maintenance and saving a few bucks is NEVER worth risking your life. One of the most important piloting lessons.
ATP is priced competitiveness, they aren't "raking in the cash" due to their prices. They might be relative to their volume of students. If you are charging less than $140/hr or so for a new Cessna 172, you are probably losing money, and those bigger schools usually do very good maintenance and spare little expense making sure the operations are safe.
How are you planning on completing groundschool and taking the knowledge tests?
12-07-2012, 08:14 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 352
US Aviation Academy is cheap and working on partnerships with various school 
Zero Time Through Certified Flight Instructor (CFI) Professional Pilot Program | 866-383-2400 | US Aviation Academy | 4850 Spartan Drive, Denton, TX 76207
That said, if money is going to be a big issue, look into the military. Even if you can't get into the flight side, your GI bill (and the money you will earn while working there) makes the whole project much more tenable.
Zero Time Through Certified Flight Instructor (CFI) Professional Pilot Program | 866-383-2400 | US Aviation Academy | 4850 Spartan Drive, Denton, TX 76207
That said, if money is going to be a big issue, look into the military. Even if you can't get into the flight side, your GI bill (and the money you will earn while working there) makes the whole project much more tenable.
12-07-2012, 08:59 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
Posts: 1,508
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes
Lots of stuff don't add up there. Your CFI is only charging you for airplane time? Not briefing, ground operations and GROUND SESSIONS? Also, your examiner's fees don't seem realistic, your aircraft rental+fees is more like $700, NOT including books and supplies. The checkride is usually longer than most of your local flights due to doing "everything". Add in 5-10 extra hours per course past the minimums for a reasonable amount as well.
That cost for the rentals is also well below the "average", and people aren't raking in money on rentals. I'd be highly suspicious of maintenance and saving a few bucks is NEVER worth risking your life. One of the most important piloting lessons.
ATP is priced competitiveness, they aren't "raking in the cash" due to their prices. They might be relative to their volume of students. If you are charging less than $140/hr or so for a new Cessna 172, you are probably losing money, and those bigger schools usually do very good maintenance and spare little expense making sure the operations are safe.
How are you planning on completing groundschool and taking the knowledge tests?
That cost for the rentals is also well below the "average", and people aren't raking in money on rentals. I'd be highly suspicious of maintenance and saving a few bucks is NEVER worth risking your life. One of the most important piloting lessons.
ATP is priced competitiveness, they aren't "raking in the cash" due to their prices. They might be relative to their volume of students. If you are charging less than $140/hr or so for a new Cessna 172, you are probably losing money, and those bigger schools usually do very good maintenance and spare little expense making sure the operations are safe.
How are you planning on completing groundschool and taking the knowledge tests?
2. How much do you pay for examiners fees? The average is around $400 per checkride. Books are around $200 for each rating, some less.
3. No my CFI doesn't charge me just for flight time, but you have to take into consideration "solo time". He doesn't charge me when i'm out flying solo. So for exaple, I took my PPL checkride when I had 40.3 hours. But I had well over 10 hours of solo time. Make sense?
4. Yes, the flying is below average...but the planes are 30-40 years old, it's a flying club, and it's at 6,000 feet elevation (fuel cost is lower).
5. You do groundschool on your own. Read all the books and do some groundschool with your CFI for any items you don't understand or need help with.
6. ATP is a cashcow...they're making a killing off their business. They pay their CFIs squat, save money on fuel by buying bulk, save on maintenance costs by having students fly to maintenance bases and consolidating their maintenance facilities etc.
I'm not saying ATP is a BAD school, they're just REALLY expensive. Sort of like Embry-Riddle.
12-07-2012, 09:36 AM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: CFI/CFII/MEI
Posts: 92
Don't forget other costs like the iPad and the apps, fore flight subscription, that will throw you back about 600 bucks if you buy the 16gb wifi only. If you want gps, buy the 3g version or a bad elf for $100.
I don't have any experience with the school, other than the few phone calls I made to them, but like what DALFA said, they are just expensive. Their financial "experts" will only do what they can to get you to take out the loan.
I don't have any experience with the school, other than the few phone calls I made to them, but like what DALFA said, they are just expensive. Their financial "experts" will only do what they can to get you to take out the loan.
12-07-2012, 11:22 AM
#16
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 16
Thank you everyone for you input. I am leaning towards just going to my local FBO here and getting a 2 year degree while I'm at it. Sure it will take a bit longer but I have asked in another thread for information a couple weeks ago and mentioned me being in the reserves. So at least with me getting a degree with my flying I wont have to take out a huge loan as the VA will pay for most of it! Thank you everyone once again for taking the time to respond. I got swayed away from Embry Riddle for the $$$ reasons and how its not totally worth it and looks like the same has happened here with ATP. I would look past the $$$ issue with ATP regardless if they still had the sure thing instruction job when you are done to build hours but without that it kinda seems pointless to take out a loan and build a bunch of debt for no reason with no degree even to show for it. Im sure with a degree and the same amount of hours as someone coming from ATP ill feel just as confident as they will about getting a job some day.
12-07-2012, 01:30 PM
#18
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by kingsnake2
US Aviation is also hiring all the time with TONS of hours 
, just to get that plug in, though it seems you've made up your mind.
What will you be getting a degree in?
, just to get that plug in, though it seems you've made up your mind.What will you be getting a degree in?
12-07-2012, 01:53 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: C172 LEFT
Posts: 173
I graduated a few months ago from the Airline Career Pilot Program. There are several things ATP has changed that aren't advertised.
1. They now have an ACPP SE track that is about 60% less of the multi engine track. If ( a big if) you get hired by them to instruct after a 1,000 hours ATP will fork out the money for the MEI and ME license.
2. Also there is a lot of things ATP doesn't advertise or even tell you. First your entire training is geared towards one thing. Making the examiner happy. They don't care if you actually know how to fly guess what buddy you get 4 I SAT AGAIN 4 flights for your ME PPL. If your not ready guess what you take your check ride any ways. If you are a slow learner they don't care. They will be sure to let you buy more time at an extremely over priced rate.
Is ATP good at doing what they advertise? Yes, I got exactly what I paid for but would never work there even if it was the only job left on the planet. They treat all the instructors like crap, they will make you work like a slave for little or no money and expect you to do some things for free. Dont expect a lick of ground instruction. Not saying that the instructors are bad but most of them have so many flights a day that ground is usually on the back burner. My instructor didn't let me get a gouge until 2 days before my check ride but trust me there were plenty of guys who only knew the knowledge on the gouge. I can't tell you how many times the examiner was kicking and screaming because only one guy had a scheduled check ride for week. Here's how *******ty of a business they run. I went under flight time on my CSEL by almost 10 hours. You think ATP did what any good business does and refunded me that money? You guessed it H*LL NO! They said that since I graduated the program and was in CFI school I was no longer entitled to that flight time even though I opted out of CFI in the end. SOCAL take it from someone who has been down the road. Go get your tickets at an FBO for half the cost and work a real job. I was fortunate to land a really good paying job outside of aviation and still using my certs on the side for fun.
1. They now have an ACPP SE track that is about 60% less of the multi engine track. If ( a big if) you get hired by them to instruct after a 1,000 hours ATP will fork out the money for the MEI and ME license.
2. Also there is a lot of things ATP doesn't advertise or even tell you. First your entire training is geared towards one thing. Making the examiner happy. They don't care if you actually know how to fly guess what buddy you get 4 I SAT AGAIN 4 flights for your ME PPL. If your not ready guess what you take your check ride any ways. If you are a slow learner they don't care. They will be sure to let you buy more time at an extremely over priced rate.
Is ATP good at doing what they advertise? Yes, I got exactly what I paid for but would never work there even if it was the only job left on the planet. They treat all the instructors like crap, they will make you work like a slave for little or no money and expect you to do some things for free. Dont expect a lick of ground instruction. Not saying that the instructors are bad but most of them have so many flights a day that ground is usually on the back burner. My instructor didn't let me get a gouge until 2 days before my check ride but trust me there were plenty of guys who only knew the knowledge on the gouge. I can't tell you how many times the examiner was kicking and screaming because only one guy had a scheduled check ride for week. Here's how *******ty of a business they run. I went under flight time on my CSEL by almost 10 hours. You think ATP did what any good business does and refunded me that money? You guessed it H*LL NO! They said that since I graduated the program and was in CFI school I was no longer entitled to that flight time even though I opted out of CFI in the end. SOCAL take it from someone who has been down the road. Go get your tickets at an FBO for half the cost and work a real job. I was fortunate to land a really good paying job outside of aviation and still using my certs on the side for fun.
12-07-2012, 01:56 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: C172 LEFT
Posts: 173
Not to mention in your contract you sign with them they have the right to switch you from 161 to 141 at any time. So that 90 day program turns into about 7 months. Although with 141 you have to receive ground instruction. They usually let the guys who were struggling in 141.
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