Landing question from student pilot
02-09-2013, 09:53 PM
#1
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Landing question from student pilot
A few weeks back I was on a dual cross country and came back to home base for landing to be done for the day. After landing we came to a full stop on the runway and THEN contacted tower to say we were a full stop and would like to taxi back to the ramp so we knew where they wanted us to exit the runway at.
They radioed back and said "it isn't safe to sit on the runway, taxi via etc etc.".
How is this process supposed to be done? Should I tell them "we will be a full stop, would like to taxi to ramp" on final? Should I tell them that right after touchdown while still rolling? Or should I just turn off of the runway to any taxiway and then let them know where we would like to taxi?
Thanks
They radioed back and said "it isn't safe to sit on the runway, taxi via etc etc.".
How is this process supposed to be done? Should I tell them "we will be a full stop, would like to taxi to ramp" on final? Should I tell them that right after touchdown while still rolling? Or should I just turn off of the runway to any taxiway and then let them know where we would like to taxi?
Thanks
02-09-2013, 10:33 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: PA34-200
Posts: 145
4-3-20. Exiting the Runway After Landing
The following procedures must be followed after landing and reaching taxi speed.
a. Exit the runway without delay at the first available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by ATC. Pilots must not exit the landing runway onto another runway unless authorized by ATC. At airports with an operating control tower, pilots should not stop or reverse course on the runway without first obtaining ATC approval.
b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise directed by ATC. An aircraft is considered clear of the runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the runway edge and there are no restrictions to its continued movement beyond the runway holding position markings. In the absence of ATC instructions, the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding position markings associated with the landing runway, even if that requires the aircraft to protrude into or cross another taxiway or ramp area. Once all parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding position markings, the pilot must hold unless further instructions have been issued by ATC.
The following procedures must be followed after landing and reaching taxi speed.
a. Exit the runway without delay at the first available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by ATC. Pilots must not exit the landing runway onto another runway unless authorized by ATC. At airports with an operating control tower, pilots should not stop or reverse course on the runway without first obtaining ATC approval.
b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise directed by ATC. An aircraft is considered clear of the runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the runway edge and there are no restrictions to its continued movement beyond the runway holding position markings. In the absence of ATC instructions, the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding position markings associated with the landing runway, even if that requires the aircraft to protrude into or cross another taxiway or ramp area. Once all parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding position markings, the pilot must hold unless further instructions have been issued by ATC.
02-09-2013, 11:08 PM
#3
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So basically right after landing take the next avail taxiway unless otherwise instructed and then let tower know your holding clear of the runway wanting to taxi back to the ramp and they will instruct or hand you off to ground.
Guess that big book comes in handy huh? Thanks a lot squawk87.
Guess that big book comes in handy huh? Thanks a lot squawk87.
02-09-2013, 11:28 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Oct 2007
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I'm sort of surprised if this is at your home base you haven't figured it out yet and doubly surprised your CFI didn't know.
The tower crew and approach control (if you have one) space planes on final based on pilots following the AIM procedures. If there was another plane right behind you they would have had to go around. If you want to do a full stop tell the tower while you're on downwind or several miles out if you're coming straight in. That way they can adjust any following traffic. And if I was in the pattern at an uncontrolled field I'd add that info to my pattern calls.
The tower crew and approach control (if you have one) space planes on final based on pilots following the AIM procedures. If there was another plane right behind you they would have had to go around. If you want to do a full stop tell the tower while you're on downwind or several miles out if you're coming straight in. That way they can adjust any following traffic. And if I was in the pattern at an uncontrolled field I'd add that info to my pattern calls.
02-09-2013, 11:31 PM
#5
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,018
John,
Think of the runway as the barrel of a loaded rifle. Don't stand on it or in line with it too long. It's the gathering point for a lot of high speed, high-energy projectiles which roar, shriek, sputter, and whir. Use the runway just long enough, and move on.
If you intend to use the runway for a stop-and-go landing, then inform the tower, or tell them you would like the option. The option allows you to go around, touch and go, stop and go, or full stop.
If you're doing a full stop, unless you've already arranged to stop on the runway, taxi clear at the first available intersection (except if it's onto a another runway...you need to coordinate that in advance).
Don't let that direction make you feel that you need to lock up the brakes and get off at the very first intersection you pass, however. You don't need to necessarily get off the runway at the one ATC advises, either. I've had many occasions when ATC might say "exit at Delta" and I've responded "unable." I'm going too fast, and Delta is too soon. I need the next one, or the one after that. It's my runway until I get clear, but good airmanship dictates that I don't abuse it. I get down, get stopped, and get clear.
You don't want to become the object of the next big runway incursion. The runway isn't a safe environment to sit around, so do your thing and then step aside so someone else can do theirs. Don't let anyone rush you in the process, however, and don't rush yourself. There's plenty of time. Take all you need...the trick is not taking more than what you need.
Yes, you need to get familiar with the AIM. It's chock full of some very important things.
Think of the runway as the barrel of a loaded rifle. Don't stand on it or in line with it too long. It's the gathering point for a lot of high speed, high-energy projectiles which roar, shriek, sputter, and whir. Use the runway just long enough, and move on.
If you intend to use the runway for a stop-and-go landing, then inform the tower, or tell them you would like the option. The option allows you to go around, touch and go, stop and go, or full stop.
If you're doing a full stop, unless you've already arranged to stop on the runway, taxi clear at the first available intersection (except if it's onto a another runway...you need to coordinate that in advance).
Don't let that direction make you feel that you need to lock up the brakes and get off at the very first intersection you pass, however. You don't need to necessarily get off the runway at the one ATC advises, either. I've had many occasions when ATC might say "exit at Delta" and I've responded "unable." I'm going too fast, and Delta is too soon. I need the next one, or the one after that. It's my runway until I get clear, but good airmanship dictates that I don't abuse it. I get down, get stopped, and get clear.
You don't want to become the object of the next big runway incursion. The runway isn't a safe environment to sit around, so do your thing and then step aside so someone else can do theirs. Don't let anyone rush you in the process, however, and don't rush yourself. There's plenty of time. Take all you need...the trick is not taking more than what you need.
Yes, you need to get familiar with the AIM. It's chock full of some very important things.
02-09-2013, 11:38 PM
#6
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Thanks for all the info and tips. I knew not to stop on the runway but when no instructions were given on which taxiway to take I was unsure if I should get off on any taxiway or to just contact them asap on the runway for taxi instuctions, my cfi told me to do the latter.
My home base was actually just changed so things are very unfamiliar right now, working on getting used to things here.
My home base was actually just changed so things are very unfamiliar right now, working on getting used to things here.
02-10-2013, 12:22 AM
#8
APC co-founder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Originally Posted by Johnjay
I know this now though and will speak with my cfi about it and reference the aim. From now on I will let tower know on base "12345 reporting left base rw 32, will be a full stop".
Read the AIM, then read it again, then just to be sure read it again.
If you can visit the tower, by all means do so and ask them what they expect. Finally, watch that CFI of yours, where are you flying?
02-10-2013, 03:59 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: Holding over Macho Grande
Posts: 602
Originally Posted by Johnjay
From now on I will let tower know on base "12345 reporting left base rw 32, will be a full stop".
Not to belabor a point...just wanted to add a little bit to what's already been written.
When I was first learning to fly the radio-work was confusing to me. Maybe you feel the same way.
Obviously you are flying into/out of a towered airport so, at a minimum, you need to establish 2-way radio comms. Here's the key...
Let the controller know what you want to do on your initial radio contact.
This way, the controller will know from the get-go what you want and can properly sequence you for what you want to do.
There are only "tree" possibilities:
1) you know you want to do touch & go's,
2) you either aren't sure yet what you want to do for some reason and/or you want to have options, or
3) you know you are landing to a full stop.
Sounds like this...
"XYZ tower, Skyhawk 21 Charlie Tango."
"Skyhawk 21 Charlie Tango, XYZ tower."
1) "XZY tower, Skyhawk 21 Charlie Tango is xx miles East (or whatever most accurate direction you are from the field) at xxxx feet, with Bravo (or whatever the ATIS ID is), inbound for touch and go's."
2) Or, if you aren't sure if you are going to do a T&G vs. a full stop and/or want options at that point, make the same call but end with "inbound and requesting the option." (When cleared "for the option", you can make a low pass, go missed, do a T&G, or land to a full stop. You "have the option" to do whatever you want.)
3) Or, if you know are landing to a full stop, then make the same call but end with "inbound for landing."
As stated by others, when landing to a full stop always exit the runway as soon as practical, roll just past the hold short line, then stop and run through your after-landing checklist (especially on/during your practical test checkride...so you may as well get in the habit now). Tower ATC will know what you are doing and either A) ask you where you are going on the field and then give you taxi instructions telling you to monitor the ground freq., or B) they will pass you over to ground ATC who will do likewise.
If tower tells you to go over to ground freq. without asking you where you are going or giving you taxi instructions, then obviously the ground controller is expecting to hear from you, and on your initial call up you can tell them,
"Ground, Skyhawk 12 Charlie Tango is going XYZ FBO", and they'll respond with your taxi clearance.
There are some very, very minor alternatives to this sequence of radio calls, but these are the biggies. Hope this proves helpful to you.
02-10-2013, 05:13 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 2,115
Clarification
Realize "full stop" does not mean stopping on the runway. After reading the thread, I'm not sure if that got through.
When you tell tower "full stop" they are expecting you to clear the runway and taxi past the tower/ground painted line and contact ground.
When you tell tower "full stop" they are expecting you to clear the runway and taxi past the tower/ground painted line and contact ground.
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