Hi all the CFI's

I know this figure will vary immensely but what it the average number of landings you do with a student pilot prior to their first solo ?

Im trying to analyse what Im doing with my students that other instructors are able to get their students land safely in half the time that I take with my students !

Thanks guys and gals

stealth

 

You are right, the number does very a lot. I never really paid too much attention to the number of landings a student would have, but I do remember that my (and most other CFIs at my school) students would have anywhere from 12ish to around 20 hours. The number of landings would probably be less at airports with runways long enough to do touch and goes considering you could get more TOLs in any given lesson.

I also noticed that the younger students would pick it up quicker than students in thei later years.

What helped my students was when I said something along the lines of "get the mains just a few feet above the runway and prevent them from touching for as long as possible". This is of course if you are teaching in a tricycle.

Howany landings are your students averaging?

 

Not a CFI, but here's a data point for "Joe Student".

70 Landings, 16.3 hours, 12 flights.
Landings per lesson:

3
6
3
2
6
2
5
6
7
7
15
4

As far as "Im trying to analyse what Im doing with my students that other instructors are able to get their students land safely in half the time that I take with my students ", I think it's all about the goals and lesson plans. It may be your fellow CFI's are concentrating on getting to solo rather than the other stuff? Looking at my log, we did a whole lot of emergency procedures, stalls, steep turns, and radio work along with the landings.

 

Im getting my students to solo by the 25 hr mark with an average of 30-40 landings... I dont know any other way to get all the many skills needed to solo and do it safely with knowing all the emergency procedures, comms, stalls/recovery and all the other basics.

And I will say 30-40 landings is being conservative. I myself solo'd at 39 hrs and I had done 100 landings prior to doing that solo despite the fact that it took me 5-6 days from day 1 to do my first ever landing.. It took that much more to refine it and where my CFI and I both felt totally secure and confident without a doubt.

Thanks for all the replies , guys.

You know what, screw what the others are doing. Im doing it good and even better than them ! ... based on the statistics of my own training which was fantastic, the experiences shared by other senior instructors and others here, I am doing everything just right.. I keep an open eye and ear to constantly learn as a professional but I dont need to reinvent the wheel here ! lol

 

Some ideas...

Find a long runway and practice touch and goes, but you set up the landing so the student just concentrates on that.

The pattern has to be very good, to get a good landing, so make sure your students are flying through the "gates" properly.

Sometimes, it helps to back track. Do the landing yourself while the student follows you on the controls.

Operate the throttle while student lands.

Make sure that as the nose comes over the numbers, the student is looking at the far end of the runwy, have them focus on something as they round out and flare.

Have them pull up the nose incrementally in the flare. You can use a grease pencil to make a line on the windshield to show the proper attitudes. Fly the airplane down a long runway in the landing attitude while your student gets the sight picture. You control the throttle, have them touch down and hold the attitude longer for it to sink in.


I once had a navy helo pilot who could fly beautifully, until roundout, then he pushed the nose down. I had 0 experience in helicopters and sought out the advice of a DE. It was a negative transfer problem; you are supposed to land a helo that way. So I just rode the controls with him, and kept my fingers behind the yoke. Everytime he pushed forward, I prevented it and reminded him not to do it. In a few hrs, he broke the habit. Don't be hesitant to ask the more experienced for help, you are doing yourself and the student a disservice, if you don't.

 

Something to consider:

It might not be what others are doing, but rather what they aren't.

When you're new, it's not all that unusual to be more conservative. It's also not unusual to get a little jaded if you've been doing it for a while. Then again, your students may have a bit more difficulty with the task, or your method may not be working for them.

One of the biggest challenges with being a CFI, and where I think you gain the most overall experience, is trying to address issues without a "one size fits all" approach. Different people are just that.

As others have said, don't get hung up on it. If your student has a concern, have them fly with someone else for a different perspective or talk to another instructor for some advice on things to do differently.

 

Short answer...

As many as it takes until the student is comfortable.

 

You probably know that 39 hours is on the high side. Everyone is different, but of the sake if discussion, did you go through a part 61 or 141(2) school? Also, how frequently were you flying? Finally, how "cautious" was your CFI, do you think you may have inherited some that?

Years ago, I worked in a Part 141 school and had an approved "script" that I was expected to work from. We got all the required maneuvers complete and I had many students solo between 10-15 hours. These were all motivated frequent flyers in a structured environment. I'd say that well over half of them got their Private ticket between 40-50 hours.

I think the environment that you work in (142 or 61) and the support that you have available will be a huge factor on time to solo/ticket. It's not really fair to compare apples to oranges.

That said, its natural to take a deep breath and cross your fingers the first time you leave any student in a running airplane.

 

What are the specific mistakes or issues your students seem to be having?

 

I liked 73Ms way of presenting the data and got me curious about my own *Joe Pilot* numbers to add to the mix:
It seems my notes indicate that I spent the first few flights concentrating on BAW and operating into and out of Class C/D airspace - not a lot of time spent on landings.
MIddle of my time spent going to a small airport outside of KTUL to concentrate on landings. Last few flights had some emergency procedures in there and hit the landings hard (purposefully finding x-wind landing opportunities).

Man that seem so long ago now.
It is really an experience flying back in that same airspace again after all of these years. One of those things that completed the circle - especially since I never expected to end up back in this area for my second career.