Air Force?
 

Is it possible just to go to the Air Force and let them teach you how to fly. Can anyone tell me what they teach and what do you have learn by yourself after you leave? How does it work? Thank you.

Use the search function above...

Here's a quick summary (this applies to most fixed-wing military flying jobs, not just USAF)...

- First, it will be very competetive.
- You will need a clean criminal record (a few traffic tickets are OK).
- You need to be a US citizen.
- No older than 27-28.
- You will have to be an officer, so you will have to go to OCS before flight school if you are accepted.
- You will have to have a 4-year degree with a high GPA (lower GPA is OK from a TOP-NOTCH school). Technical (engineering, computer science, chemistry, etc) are HIGHLY preferred.
- Varsity athletic background (high school or college) is normal.
- You will need to pass an extensive medical exam,and will need 20/20 vision in each eye WITHOUT correction (you can get laser vision surgery to meet this requirement... PRK only)
- You will need to contact an officer recruiter in order to get the paperwork started...the paperwork package will require a LOT of initiative on your part.
- You will be put through a short civilian flight training indoc/evaluation before you are accepted into the military...you have to pass this.
- For a civilian with no military experience it will be VERY helpful if you have at least a private pilot license.

Also, be aware that you will be signing up to be a military officer FIRST, and a flyer second, especially in the Navy/USMC...think about that before you do it.

If you are doing this to get experience for the airlines, I would recommend a fixed-wing Air national Guard Unit. Otherwise you might get assigned helicopters, which will not help much for the airlines.

Good Luck

Agree with all EXCEPT:

I don't think Varsity anything is normal or required...except maybe drinking...but even that seems to be changing these days.

You don't have to go through OTS; that's just one of three methods of entering the active duty. The other two methods are:

Go through ROTC in college. They have programs as short as 2 years, but you need to finish with a Bachelor degree.

Go to the USAF academy.

Another entire track is direct entry into the Air National Guard or USAF Reserve. You will end up going to the exact same pilot training and fly the exact same airplanes as the active duty but the entry requirements are very different. Whole 'nuther subject.

Also, there is no way to go to USAF pilot training and end up with a helicopter assignment. You should know long before you sign on the dotted line if you're going for fixed or rotary wing.

Nah the Air Force doesn't teach you how to fly. They just through you in the plane, as long as you flew Falcon 4.0 or Microsoft flight sim you can be a fighter pilot!


NEXT!!

"Also, there is no way to go to USAF pilot training and end up with a helicopter assignment. You should know long before you sign on the dotted line if you're going for fixed or rotary wing."

Just curious...did they do away with the "Joint Specialized UPT". When I went through ('94), some of the active duty guys went to Helo training. They didn't know they were going until the drop.

Also, they may have changed the rules about eye surgery, but I'd research this very carefully before I had anything done.

I think he meant going to UPT as a guard guy you won't get helos if your unit isn't already flying them.

Tanker Bob - you just opened up a can of .......

There is also a 10 year service commitment in the Air Force after you complete Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT).

I will add my thoughts in because in 3 weeks I will find out if I got a pilot slot in the USAF. There are a couple things that aren't exactly right....

You can fly rotary, its an option after UPT. Most people don't want it. If you do go rotary you will either be flying special operations or missle support out at the ranges.

And I don't think there are any guard or reserve units flying helos.

* Normal color vision
* Distant vision – pilots, uncorrected to 20/50
* Near vision – pilots, uncorrected to 20/20
* Meet refraction, accommodation and astigmatism requirements
* Corrective eye surgery could be a disqualifier
* Have no history of hay fever, asthma or allergies after age 12
* Meet Air Force weight and physical conditioning requirements
* Have standing height of 64 to 77 inches and sitting height of 34 to 40 inches

PRK is really touchy right now. If you want it, let the AF do it.

NY ANG has C-130's and Blackhawks at Gabreski Field, Westhampton, NY

Good point on the Air Force distance vision. I was discussing USN/USMC also, and they are still 20/20 unless that has changed very recently.

I wouldn't bet next paycheck on this but I'm reasonably sure that you can't get non-volunteered to a helo on assignment night.

Also, the eye surgery thing HAS changed and certain types are allowed. That much I'm certain.

Absolutely 100% NOT TRUE. One example would be the Reserve helo rescue unit at D.M. in Tucson.

Non-guard/standard Air Force pilot going through UPT recieves their assignment as they finish "primary" based off of primary completion score, desired selection, and BILLETS AVAILABLE. Simple put you will get whatever the USAF gives you regardless of your choice. Trust me, I see selections every week for all four services out of Whiting.

-SS

Helo-slots are so rare these days that you pretty much have to want one to get one. There are always 1 or 2 in the class that'd rather fly helo's than heavies.

Answering the original poster's question, yes, it is possible to go into the Air Force and have them teach you how to fly. If you get accepted to flight school, you will spend about a year and a half in flight training while they teach you how to fly military aircraft. You can take FAA written tests while in the military to get your civilian Instrument, Multi-Engine Commercial ticket so that when you leave the military, you can go on to get your ATP and fly for a commercial operation.

if you have allergies that is an automatic disqualifier?

Yes. The airforce, if you get a pilot slot, will teach you how to fly. You can have zero hours. So long as you can pass the physical and a few other tests you can get a pilot slot. Also you have to have a 4yr degree it doesn't matter in what.

They'll start you just like a preprivate. You'll go up in small single engine planes and learn pattern work then progress into soloing. Then you'll move up to a little bigger and little faster aircraft where you learn all the systems and learn to formation fly ect. After your 11 years are up you'll be pretty darn good at flying.

There are tons. I've seen chanooks out here in Del Rio doing border work all the time. From Houston? There are always reserve and guard guys flying helo's in and out of here.

I am pretty sure there are Guard helos in Alaska too...

You can have allergies too, it all depends. I would recommend to anyone to try. Things are waiverable, and some are not. But try or you will never know. Don't ever just take the mutterings of those on a chat forum or "friends" who think they know, because most of the time they are full of sh!t.
Go for it and let them tell you no, because they may not!

Good luck


One more thing: there are alot of people who say they would have tried but they have this or that. Don't be that guy. Its not as bad as you think. You have to not be a pu$$y and try.

For Guard / Reserve Job Postings
 

Go to baseops.net and look at their ANG/AFRES job listing.
They often post listings for pilot hiring boards.
military flying provides excellent opportunities for getting awesome flying expirience with relatively little flying time. Where else can you pilot a KC-135 all over the world, and be a aircraft commander (captain) with between 800-1200 hours (1200 more liekly). Keep in mind that Air Force pilot training is a long hard year.

I have flown Active Duty, Guard, and Reserve. They all have certain advantages. I think the reserve provides the best of both active duty and guard. It is easier to move from reserve to reserve unit than guard to guard.

Guard ushually has the least BS when it come to getting the job done. They also get the most cush trips. On call to state gov then fed gov

Reserve get many cush trips too, but is still on call to the federal gov

Active duty gives you full time medical and a guaranteed paycheck every 1st and 15th.

Whichever way you go you might find out that it becomes more that you expected.

Good Luck
Boogie
737-700 & KC-135R/T/RT Driver

Vision stuff, copied and pasted from a post by a AF flight DOC on another forum

First, let me say that posting this using UBB is a pain in the A@*!!!!

Second, these are the Standards. What they will waiver (which is probably what you want to know) is inappropriate for me to post. You need to ask them.

Third, these standards are for Applicants. There are different standards for trained aviators.
Standards
Visual Acuity
Pilots
USAF 20/70 w/o a waiver. 20/200 with a waiver
USN 20/40
USMC 20/40
USA 20/50

Nav
USAF 20/200
USN correctable to 20/20
USMC correctable to 20/20
USA N/A

Other
USAF 20/200
USN correctable to 20/20
USMC correctable to 20/20
USA 20/400

Refractive Error (any meridian)
Pilot
USAF -1.50 +2.00 without a waiver, -3.00 +3.00 with a waiver
USN -1.50 +3.00
USMC -1.50 +3.00
USA -1.50 +3.00

Nav
USAF -2.75 +3.00
USN -8.00 +8.00
USMC -8.00 +8.00
USA N/A

OTHER
USAF -5.50 +5.50
USN -8.00 +8.00
USMC -8.00 +8.00
USA no standard

Pre-PRK (any meridian)
Pilot
USAF -5.50 -1.00
USN -8.00 +6.00
USMC -8.00 +6.00
USA -6.00 +4.00

Nav
USAF -5.50 -1.00
USN -8.00 +6.00
USMC -8.00 +6.00
USA n/a

OTHER
USAF -5.50 -1.00
USN -8.00 +6.00
USMC -8.00 +6.00
USA -6.00 +4.00

COLOR VISION
Pilot
USAF 10/14 PIP 1&2
USN 12/14 PIP
USMC 12/14 PIP
USA 10/14 PIP

Nav
USAF 10/14 PIP 1&2
USN 12/14 PIP
USMC 12/14 PIP
USA N/A

OTHER
USAF 10/14 PIP 1&2
USN 12/14 PIP
USMC 12/14 PIP
USA 10/14 PIP

Allergies are a tricky beast. I had allergies as a kid and took shots but I made it through Brooks. Just apply, let a AF flight Doc DQ you, don't DQ yourself! I had a long bumpy road to getting my medical approved, just started upt and still have to get surgery but I am not going to stop fighting until they throw me out!

You can go fly helos in the Air Force. I believe there are three helo units in the guard in NY,CA, and AK all HH-60 units. As far as how hard it is to get a helo out of UPT, it varies. My friend is currently un UPT down in XL and said like 4-5 guys in his class wanted helos. Pretty sure they only drop 1 per class. But you may get a class that noone wants helos, as always alot is based on luck and timing! If you want a helo let your flight commander know ASAP, if you are a good stud they will try to get you one. I have heard of quite a few people putting T-38's first and helos second, knowing if they didn't get fighters they would still be doing some cool tactical flying in helo's. Oh and if you want helo's don't apply for ENJJPT, everyone here goes fighters therefor not chance to track UH-1's!

On a side note, I had about 650 hours of fixed wing time when I took my first flight in a helicopter. Hands down that is the most fun .5 in my logbook. I would love to find a dual rated job to fly both fixed and helo's.

Not trying to discount what you are saying, just trying to point out that you should never DQ yourself. Don't think that one minor thing is going to keep you from going after you dreams.

Well. I have no allergies. Perfect vision. Havent been sick too many times. And my weight and height is good for my age.

So I want to become a commercial airline pilot without having to pay too much for flight school. So could I go into the air national guard reserve and they would teach me?

I would recommend that to any aspiring pilot who can qualify...you want an air national guard unit that flies fixed wing airplanes (anything fighters, tankers, transports...just not helos).

I would recommend this career path:

1) 4-year college (good grades, and technical major if possible)
2) Pilot ratings while in college, if possible (Inst, Comm, CFI, CFII, MEI)
3) Work as CFI
4) Get hired into regional, finish consolidation (6 months or bless)
5) Apply to Guard unit
6) Attend USAF OCS and flight training (2 years)
7) Return to regional (you now have the seniority to be a captain)
8) Get 1000+ hours airline captain time
9) Apply to major airlines...with 121 captain time AND the military background you will be very competetive.


You could join the guard earlier so you don't have to pay for all those civilian ratings, but ideally you want to accrue airline seniority while you are away at military training.

What he said! If you could get a seniority number before you went to training that would the way to go. I know many guys who have worked that angle and pretty much walked right into a captain spot (after gaining some more experience the in the jet first). But still...to miss out on those first three-four years or crap pay, would be nice. If I were to go to a regional after all my training I will be taking about a 25,000 cut in base pay, close to 40,000 if you include flight pay, BAH and BAS. Whereas if you had a higher seniority number and could get into a captain spot quicker the cut in pay wouldn't be as painful.

Ok, so during college I go to flight school? And, if I join the AF can't they take me to Iraq?

Yes. The military can take you anywhere in the world; good or bad (these days, it's mostly bad). Don't join the military to become an airline pilot because you won't enjoy it. People tend to think the guard and reserves are "flying clubs" where you can fly military aircraft, but not have to go to war. Well, think again. The guard and reserves are going to be used more and more heavily as time goes on. With more and more downsizing of active duty forces, the federal government will activate more and more guard/reserve units to pick up the slack. Our active duty forces are running on fumes these days. There are plenty of guardsmen and reservists in Iraq getting killed right along side their active duty bretheren. Granted in the Air Guard, you will be in a much safer place than the troops on the ground, but there are still threats. If you don't want to go to places like the Middle East, then it may be worth just spending the $35,000 at your local FBO and doing it the proverbial "old fashioned way".

So in your opinion it would just be easier to finish college (to have something to fall back on, just in case) and get a degree and either during or after go to flight school (i was thinking about ATP).

Yes, they can send you to Iraq or Afghanistan...or anywhere else they want.

If you're afraid of deploying to this war (or the next) please do me a favor and don't join the military.

I couldn't tell you what would be "easier" because we obviously have a totally different frame of reference.

ONLY IF YOU ADMIT TO THEM! A normal USAF physical is not going to find out that you're vulnerable to say...russian ragweed. They will ask you a million questions that, if you want to pass the physical, you will answer "no" to.

If you answer so much as "maybe", they'll test you until your feet bleed and then they WILL find something that you're allergic to, and then they'll disqualify you and make you a logistics officer.

And yes, I know people who fell for that trap.

Funny you say this. I was talking to the flight doc the other day who said that it's funny when all these guys make it through Brooks with no allergies. But the day they show up to UPT they all the sudden have allergies and ask to be put in Claritin and flonase. :D 1Seat1Engine is on to something! ;)

Yes they can!

I joined when I was in high school, took a semester of school off and went to training. Came back started college got a degree and up through my CFII and only came out with about 5k in debt thanks to all the incentives and bonuses (and working) offered by the guard. Yes I was sent, let me rephrase that, volunteered to go to the desert once. But I am in a fighter unit and we don't get sent over nearly as much as our heavy brethren. I also went on many other TDY's with my unit and all were voluntary including my trip to the desert. I had no problem getting through school, even graduated a semester early. Going on all those deployments and working hard paid off as my unit offered me a pilot slot which I graciously accepted :D .

If you have the desire to fly for the military and serve your country then go for it but if all you want to do is further your civilian career, stay away! There is far to much worked involved with military flying to do it for that reason.

Never said it'd be easier (I would imagine it could very well be easier than life in the military), but getting into the flying industry is not exactly easy no matter which way you go. I did it both ways. Paid for all my civilian training, worked as a CFII for a few years, joined active duty AF and now I'm in the ANG, but this was not planned from the very start this way. Doing the military route is not a bad way to go and probably the best financial choice since you don't pay anything for the flight training, get great flying experience and the pay as a brand new 2nd Lt in the Air Force is probably about the same as a 4 year regional captain. At the same time, a 10 year military commitment is alot to swallow if you're not 110% sure that is what you want to do. Being a pilot in the Air Force is not all glamour like it may seem when you go to air shows. There are lots of other things that come with the job. Paperwork, desk duties, non-flying assignments, etc... You are an officer first, then pilot. It's not like the airlines where you've got 15+ days off a month and when you're off, you're home chill'n on your recliner.

Yea, I wanted to go serve but for me family is always first and my brother already went into the military and got killed by a roadside bomb while his unit was on patrol so they don't want me going in the military. So I am looking for a civilian way to get into the flying industry even if it means paying for it.

So, what would you recommend that's in the civilian ways of getting in?

First, I am very sorry to hear about your brother, I can only imagine how hard it is to lose a loved one like that. I also respect your stance that family is first, as it always should be.

One thing to keep in mind, while flying in the military is not free of it's hazards, were are not exactly walking the streets of Baghdad either. To be honest on my last deployment to the desert I spent at least an hour or so a day sitting in a nice pool *(as an enlisted guy not a pilot, although the pilots spent their fair share of time at the pool also). Gotta love the AF! If flying to the Air Force is something you really want to do then go for it. I know it might hurt your family a little now but if it is truly something you want to do they should respect that. You don't want to be that guy who turns 40 and looks back with regrets. Like I said I respect that you put family first as should everyone else, because in the end they will always be there for you.

From the perspective of a guy who went to a small pilot factory and got an aviation degree. If the civilian route is what you decide then I would recommend that you stay away from the pilot factories. Get your degree in something other than aviation or at least double major! If I had it to do over again I would have got a business degree. Do your flying at a part 61 FBO. It will cost about half as much and you will still get they same ratings as the other guy from the pilot factory. Get your CFI and teach while you are still in college to build up your time. Research, research, research!!!! There are tons of jobs out there for low time guys to build up their Total time if you just look. Once you hit 500tt your options open up significantly, there is banner towing, aerial photography, flying tours. Or just go out to a place like Tucson or Phoenix where there are about 364 days of good flying a year and get a CFI job at a busy flight school. I am willing to bet most of those guys max our their 8 hours of instruction a day. Also try to find a place with a twin so you could possibly teach in that to build your multi-time.

PM me if have any more questions.

great post! can you explain to me why you would work as a CFI before applying to the guard unit? and why you would attend USAF OCS after joining the guard unit?

Because going into a Guard or Reserve Unit is highly competitive. Only 2-4% of people looking to get hired into the Guard or Reserves get pilot slots. That means you should have some substantial time (200 hours +) if you want to be really competitive. Not as true for Active Duty.

In the Guard you would go to AMS (Academy of Military Science), which is a 6 week version of OTS. In the Reserves you will go to to OTS (Officer Training School), which is a 12 week program. You are an Officer first, so if you didn't go to the Academy or ROTC in College, then you are going to go to AMS or OTS. Why? Because whether you are Guard, Reserve, or Active duty, you are an Officer in the United States Air Force, and are trained accordingly.

ahh ok, so AMS and OTS are for officer training. so you would only actually get hours in the USAF OCS? is that competetive as well?

You don't fly at AMS or OTS, no hours involved. He was talking about getting selected for the guard.