Is Cathay Pacific culture really that bad?
 

It seems that I've spoken to a number of people who have second-hand knowledge of the culture at Cathay being difficult; ridged micro-managing captains, stringint training programs and so on. I'm all for a high level of competency and professionalism, but no-one wants to walk on eggshells in the flight-deck. Is it really that difficult of an atmosphere to work in?

On a related note, how's the QOL? Days off in a month? Vacation? Flight benefits?

Thanks!

Have a very good friend who flies for American Airlines now and is very happy. He told me that he didn't enjoy his time at Cathay Pacific at all. He said the people at Cathay were very difficult and there is no compassion in their company culture. Anyone can be terminated at any given time. The quality of life is also average. He says he would not go to Cathay in today's environment. There are much better jobs out there.

Cathay Pacific used to be one of the hardest airlines to get hired and one of the best paying.
For years it was THE destination airline for a lot of people.
Seems to have lost some of its shine.

Fixed it for you ;)

True story. Years ago I am out with a friend in Dubai during Ramadan. Bars are all pretty slow then because, well it's Ramadan. So we walk into a bar in Bur Dubai that has very few people in it and sit down for a beer. A few minutes later an older gentlemen gets up from a table nearby and starts heading for the exit. My friend sees him and calls out his name. The guy comes over and they exchange greetings and make introductions for me. The guy is an A scale Cathay 747 captain on a layover who just happens to live in Thailand where my friend does (small world). Anyway we get to chatting and they get around to the topic of my friends brother. My friends brother (American by the way) was at Cathay for 8 years in the 90s and early 2000s. He was not successful at upgrade on the 747 fleet and left Cathay because of that.

When I say not successful, it's not that he failed any training events. He went through training fine, in fact very well by all accounts. So this guy we are talking to, a British 747 captain relates what he knows of the story. Back then (and still now, I don't know) all upgrade decisions went to something called the Star Chamber which was a group who decided whether or not someone would be blessed as a captain after their training was finished. So my friends brother's file gets there and the decision is made not to allow him to be a captain. The reason, now relayed to us by this guy sitting across the table is that the (British) 747 fleet manager/chief pilot said, "I will not have an American as a captain on my fleet".

After two years of applying I finally got an interview invite last week... and I'm finally to the point where I don't even want to go. I have one friend who left as a 14 year FO for a regional in the US with the hopes of getting picked up by a legacy. Says a lot.

It's a evil and sick place from what I've heard. Potato, you have no idea what you'd be getting into.

Sick and evil, a lot like Emirates. Basically, the British and Aussies run the show in Cathay and Emirates. They don't seem to like Americans very much.

Very different at Emirates. Americans do fine at Emirates. Well over 200 captains from the USA at EK; some in management roles in years past; and many in the training department.

So Typhoon, if you had to pick one today, who is the best? EK, EY or QR?

Wow. Lots of posts, all negative. I wonder why they are so hostile to American pilots? Gernerally think of Americans getting on pretty well with brits and aussies, guess not. Maybe I'll focus my attention elsewhere then.

I always thought this was a bit humorous, especially considering that one of the founders of Cathay Pacific was an American.

QR seems to be the clear winner right now. I know a few people there, including a former colleague who just started. Ex-EK guy is head of training now and he's a good guy. I used to work with him a fair amount and always got along well with him.

I would not go there on the A320 though. Would also stay away from the A320 at EY.

It's different at EK. Of course there is the occasional DB, but the Brits, Kiwis, and Aussies at EK were pretty easy to get along with. There were more than a few of them that couldn't stand CX/KA and left to join EK back in the early 2000s.

I'm still good friends with a number of Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans, and Zims from EK.

I've had two former students that made it into their second officer program.
They'll be watching other people fly from the jumpseat for a long time.
From what I've heard their Tech interview is difficult.
Acquaintance who's a total geek and a lot smarter then me didn't make it through.
Cathay Pacific used to be on my list but no longer.
Truthfully not because of any changes there as I haven't followed what's going on but because my planning has changed.
What seems to be obvious though is that there is a lot more Internet forum noise on :
Cathay Pacific
Emirates

I was thinking the same, QR. Oh, the 320 is a terrible fleet to be on due to schedules. 330 and 777 had good rosters. Back when I was there, everyone wanted to go to EY or EK. People used to bail to EY all the time. EK wouldn't hire QR pilots due to some agreement they had with each other. Wow, how tables have turned.

Because we put our cowboy boots on the instrument panel?

The tables at QR have no turned even a tiny bit, it has just gotten worse at EK and CX and other places. Glad I left that slave ship.

I could build a mountain out of stories at QR of good guys shut out of command courses.

One guy passed the entire command selection process and was told he had passed and down well but they simply just decided not to let him upgrade. He quit.

A year later there was a 320 course for probably 6 guys that was cancelled the day it was supposed to begin. Instead of putting those guys on the next course they were all told they had to wait 18-24 months because "their course" was cancelled and therefore they must start the entire process over again, yet just a couple weeks later people junior to them upgraded in the next course. I know for sure that about half of those guys left, some to their home countries others to VNA and even KA.

Another guy had a contentious command evaluation where he was assassinated due to excessive sick calls (3 calls in something like 4 years.) Fleet manager told him to his face that as long as he was in management he would make sure he could never ever upgrade or change fleets. Like any sane person he also left the company.

There are a couple huge egos that run Qatar Airways and if you get on their bad side you can forget about any kind of job security or advancement.

CX was founded by an American not co founded. The Aussie came later.

CX was then stolen by the Brits in the 50s.

Heres whats being said at CX, "It was just a small iceberg but you need not worry as this ship is unsinkable"! Near, far wherever you are.

Wave goodbye Leonardo!

Because Americans are better pilots and the aussies and brits just cant wrap their heads around that.

From a passenger perspective:
They are my least favourite airline to fly on in Asia. It is very similar to AA or UAL. I'm sitting in a Cathay biz lounge right now. Food is sub-par. Carpeting and furniture should have been replaced years ago... VERY shabby. Reminds me of a crappy UAL lounge. They have definitely gone down hill...

atpcliff, you are not the only one saying that either. Tell CX though, they need to hear it.

Right....cx is going to listen to cliff. Nobody else does, why would they be any different?

Its really sad seeing a once great airline slide so far down. Their stock is worth about 11HKD a share now....

Saw them slogging into a Holiday Inn SFO layover a couple of years ago.
Joking with CA about what a fall they've taken to end up staying at a flophouse with the likes of a Big 3 US bankruptcy basket case and a JFK LCC after crossing the Pacific.
He agreed.

There's another problem - well it is at Dragon Air, so I suppose the same at Cathay - and that is their policy of hiring 'local' FO's. I just spent some time in HKG with a friend who's been a CAPT at Dragon for 15 years, and he (South African) and his buddies (one Brit, one Canadian, I'm a 'Yank'), told me seemingly endless horror stories of FO's that, well, can't spell 'airplane' let alone fly an airplane. They have no interest in aviation really, just applied to what seemed like a good job. They're sent off to AUS to get a bare CPL or MCL and then come back directly into the right seat of an A330. They regularly fail sim rides and don't care, and are back at work the next day as if nothing has happened. One told me about an 21 yr old FO (female Chinese), that he asked, "If I was incapacitated right now, are you confident you could safely make an emergency landing?" Her answer: "I pray everyday on the bus when I come to work, that nothing will happen to the Captain because we will all die if something does."
Creates a lot of extra stress for the Captain...:eek:

I flew them once, never again!! Same for Air Asia, I'll pay the extra 200-500 for a reputable carrier. Holy cow

I was never paid enough to justify slogging. Perhaps a good mosey at best. :D

Just to make you feel more confident: one of the guys was flying as CA in sim training with 5 FO's where they were briefed (no surprises) the CA would be incapacitated on approach into HKG. All 5 crashed into the ocean... did it again, and 4 out of 5 crashed into the sea, and 1 overran the runway.

Is this Cathay or Dragon (or is there a diff?).

I'm supposed to fly Cathay twice this month with one of them connecting to Dragon. Maybe I'll take the train for the connection. :eek:

To be fair, you could say these things about most Asian carriers now. Singapore, for one sacked, (yes, I used the word sacked) their expats (mostly Aussie refugees) years ago. The airlines are trying to attract "talent" on the cheap but it is starting to backfire. It will take a major accident, I know, many have happened, to attract the attention of the various "authorities". I am honestly surprised the FAA isn't all over this but a 777-300er with 300 Yanks has not plunged into the ocean-YET.

It's Dragon, but I'm assuming (as Cathay owns Dragon) it's the same at Cathay...Like Braniff DC8 says, it's pretty much the same at all the Asian carriers. I've also got CA friends at Singapore and they have similar stories to the Dragon Air guys.

...and, both Cathay and Dragon still have Expat FO's that are very experienced; just luck of the draw who you'll have on your flight! :eek:

So true. Flew CX in international business class (paid ticket) a few months back on a Triple. The food was awful, worse than US domestic coach. The HK lounge was ratty and dirty. I'm amazed that CX still has any loyal business customers.

They have fallen a long way since the '80s, when I rode them frequently as a precocious teen living abroad...

Air Asia, LCC coming to an airport near you!

I flew cx last year from SFO. First class over and biz back and both flights were exceptional, especially the first class ride. All pilots were expats. Hard to believe it's gone that downhill.

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I have to wonder how much of the ratty and dirty lounge in HK is related to the creeping influence of China. Nothing in mainland China is maintained. A great example is terminal 3 in PEK. The terminal is not even nine years old yet (opened in July 2008) and yet many parts of it look like it is fifty years old. I stayed in the short stay hotel on the arrivals level and the carpet and wallpaper was completely worn, even bare in some places. The shower head was crusted over with lime and water barely trickled out. Also the Air China/Star Alliance business lounge in 3E (international departures area) is full of worn carpet and worn out chairs. Easily the worst lounge I have ever visited.

Sounds like the Korean lounge at LAX.

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CX pilots are in a work slow down (contract compliance) over work rules. It was announced that Atlas will be flying two B748s for CX beginning this month.

I hope the Atlas pilots realize what they are doing. If Atlas were to eventually go on strike, what support would they like to have especially Americans?

ATLAS PILOTS, PLEASE DON'T DO IT!

I used to want to work for CX. A friend and myself applied about 12 years ago. We both got interviews. He went to HK for his interview, talked to a bunch of other interviews beforehand, and canceled his CX interview. I cancelled mine which was scheduled a few weeks later.

A couple of years later I am working in Asia at a different carrier. A few times I spent time in hotel lounges with a few CX pilots. All they talked about was who the last @$$hole sim evaluator was, and who they were going to get the next time. In between they complained about @nal Captains they flew with.

Not for me. I think I made a good choice.

Are the Cathay pilots on strike? No. If they were on strike, then we wouldn't cross. However, there is no strike, so there is no valid point in your post.

Atlas pilots will not cross a picket line, as was recently demonstrated during the ABX strike.