Air Canada payscales
12-10-2019, 06:22 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 517
Air Canada payscales
The payscales for Air Canada on the Airline Pilot Central website show a big increase in pay around year 5 seniority, but before that they seem significantly lower than compared to USA legacies. In comparison the USA legacies are only noticeably lower for the year 1 probationary year.
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/canadian/air_canada
Why is this?
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/canadian/air_canada
Why is this?
12-19-2019, 08:18 AM
#2
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 12
You asked for it. Here's the story of how we got that... and so much more.
In 2011 Air Canada Pilots voted down an extremely concessionary T/A, ousted their union representatives, and sought to reengage with the company in a new round of negotiations.
The company wasn't happy and threatened to lock them out, but had already colluded with the Canadian Government at the time who immediately passed a law, on the lockout threat from the company, called the Protecting Air Services Act.
PASA stripped the Pilots of their right to collective bargaining and imposed a type of overreaching arbitration called "Final Offer Selection." Under FOS, the arbitrator must select one side's Final Offer in its entirety, no compromise and no middle ground. PASA also explicitly stated that the arbitrator must select the offer that was best for the corporation's success, stability, and profitability.
The deck was loaded.
The company wrote a wish list and got everything they wanted as designed by the law.
Including the 4 years of low pay for new hires no matter which type they go on, a pay rate that was previously for regional sized jet FOs and RPs. The company clearly foresaw the massive retirements, growth, and hiring coming.
Previously it took 4 years just to get to the right seat of the 320, so new hires were Relief Pilots, or E175/190 FOs at a lower rate anyway so I guess it seemed not a far reach to an arbitrator to lock that rate in for 4 versus the previous 2 years probation pay. Of course now, we have new hires being assigned to right seat 787 and 777 and they won't get paid properly for the first 4 years...
That's not the only gift from PASA/FOS. The company took so much more. They got the divisive LCC brand "Rouge", they stole the pension from the new hires joining after 2012, they gutted work rules, they stole the E175s from our scope and sent them to a new CPA regional at 1/2 price wages, they increased CPA flying, they reduced FO pay rates, they limited our ability to bid new positions, and on and on...
And we all just took it and went to work... unbelievable... But somehow even as far as we've fallen behind, the amount of sacrifice we've had to make to repair damage from FOS - get a pension back for the new hires, fix work rules at the LCC, etc. - we're still the best contract and highest pay in this frickin' country... unbelievable.
On the bright side this is apparently high on the list to get fixed in the next round, in the meantime you can get off the low 4 year pay by bidding left seat. Most narrow body types in Toronto are around 2-3 years for the junior Captain.
In 2011 Air Canada Pilots voted down an extremely concessionary T/A, ousted their union representatives, and sought to reengage with the company in a new round of negotiations.
The company wasn't happy and threatened to lock them out, but had already colluded with the Canadian Government at the time who immediately passed a law, on the lockout threat from the company, called the Protecting Air Services Act.
PASA stripped the Pilots of their right to collective bargaining and imposed a type of overreaching arbitration called "Final Offer Selection." Under FOS, the arbitrator must select one side's Final Offer in its entirety, no compromise and no middle ground. PASA also explicitly stated that the arbitrator must select the offer that was best for the corporation's success, stability, and profitability.
The deck was loaded.
The company wrote a wish list and got everything they wanted as designed by the law.
Including the 4 years of low pay for new hires no matter which type they go on, a pay rate that was previously for regional sized jet FOs and RPs. The company clearly foresaw the massive retirements, growth, and hiring coming.
Previously it took 4 years just to get to the right seat of the 320, so new hires were Relief Pilots, or E175/190 FOs at a lower rate anyway so I guess it seemed not a far reach to an arbitrator to lock that rate in for 4 versus the previous 2 years probation pay. Of course now, we have new hires being assigned to right seat 787 and 777 and they won't get paid properly for the first 4 years...
That's not the only gift from PASA/FOS. The company took so much more. They got the divisive LCC brand "Rouge", they stole the pension from the new hires joining after 2012, they gutted work rules, they stole the E175s from our scope and sent them to a new CPA regional at 1/2 price wages, they increased CPA flying, they reduced FO pay rates, they limited our ability to bid new positions, and on and on...
And we all just took it and went to work... unbelievable... But somehow even as far as we've fallen behind, the amount of sacrifice we've had to make to repair damage from FOS - get a pension back for the new hires, fix work rules at the LCC, etc. - we're still the best contract and highest pay in this frickin' country... unbelievable.
On the bright side this is apparently high on the list to get fixed in the next round, in the meantime you can get off the low 4 year pay by bidding left seat. Most narrow body types in Toronto are around 2-3 years for the junior Captain.
04-06-2020, 12:18 PM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 76
You mean go to another airlines ?
Canada big dogs are AC, Westjet and Air Transat. Air Transat is being bought by AC as we speak and Westjet is mainly a NB company. They juuuust got a handful of WB.
So your choices are pretty limited.
Canada big dogs are AC, Westjet and Air Transat. Air Transat is being bought by AC as we speak and Westjet is mainly a NB company. They juuuust got a handful of WB.
So your choices are pretty limited.
04-07-2020, 06:15 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 774
Originally Posted by powersmurfuk1
Guess the only option would be to move out of Canada then...but how many people would do that??
I’ve flown with and know many Canadians. They’re mostly conservative and we’re fed up with big govt up there and move south, good lot overall.
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