You have a lot to learn about Fedex and UPS my friend. I am with Fedex and on the 757. There is day flying to be had (depending on seniority). We have 777's. If you think that the A380's and 777's at Emirates, only fly during the day, you must be smoking some good stuff. And by the way, the layovers at Emirates are pretty short. I have 6 buddies, who over the last 5 years, have left Emirates because their bodies were taking such a pounding. Two of them, both in excellent health, developed Diabetes because of their "great" schedules. This whole discussion is academic in any event, Fedex are only taking guys out of the pool, and the rest of the airlines will not be hiring for many years to come.

Not competitive yet for UPS and FedEx. Comments about international flying show you don’t have a clue. Good luck to you!

OP:

Are you this guy from flightinfo ? Or his twin brother ?

https://forums.flightinfo.com/search/336464/?page=10

....just something I picked up on....

The O.P. Seems to have no clue about anything industry related at all.
Seriously doubting he’s a “RJ driver” Let alone PIC on one.

Because I have yet to fly international lol. By the way, didn’t see any comments by you about international flying, could you elaborate?

The link isn’t working and I’ve never used flightinfo before, so no.

If you’re referring to my comments about Fedex and UPS operations, then yes, I have no clue. Never flown with them or talked with anyone working for them. Give me a break. Can’t expect me to be an expert on everything going on with every company.

If you’re referring to any other comments I’ve made, let me know. So far I think you’re trying to create an argument rather than adding to the discussion.

Your comment would prove slightly more useful if you elaborated.

To my understanding, there are some day trips but mostly night flying. At Emirates, yes, you will get night flying but flying will mostly be during the day (not defending Emirates, just stating facts). Compare that to a FedEx 777 pretty much only flying at night save a few trips. Reading a few posts on here tells me that most pilots are fatigued and complain about upper management. Not exactly my gig haha. Notice how on FR24 there are hardly any cargo planes in the sky during the day? Look at it at night, and you’ll see dozens. So if I’m wrong, tell me, because that’s what this forum is for.

This thread has turned into an argument about cargo flying lol. I’ve asked how Emirates lifestyle is like, and so far I’ve gotten negative feedback. Guess I have my answer!

What’s your net salary a month?


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If you actually believe that Emirates does not fly much at night, then yes, you are completely clueless. Not just about cargo carriers, but about the airline you say you are interested in as well.

And I think someone else called you clueless about international flying not because you haven’t done it, but because you show you are totally clueless about the basics. You seem to think that it’s mostly daytime flying. Good luck flying to Europe, Asia, or South America on your 777 during mostly daytime hours.

No, I completely agree, all daytime flying for Emirates is certainly not possible/realistic. I mean, you’re flying across the world, you can obviously expect it to get dark. It’s just the chances of doing back of the clock hub turns, (a wide majority) of daytime sleeping, and the very nature of cargo flying (essentially working on the back of the clock so packages arrive during the day) that doesn’t appeal to me.

In some ways, cargo flying seems more appealing than a US major if I were to go with them. Less dealing with passengers, more time off, get to travel the world with nicer aircraft (like someone else said). My issue overall is just extensive night flying and the toll it takes. If there’s anything I’m missing out let me know.

Everyone has been trying to explain to you that flying for UAE is 'back of the clock' flying. They fly heavy jets across vast continents,countries, oceans, seas, and time zones... which is basically 'back of the clock' flying that you refer to. For example, you depart OMDB at 6pm local and arrive to KIAD at 9am local. That is going to negatively effect your circadian rhythm and sleep patterns. That's just like FDX/UPS flying.

I agree! I’m just saying cargo flying has more likelihood of flying at night than anything.

I was at Emirates for nearly 7 years, went from a RJ Capt in the US to 777 Capt inside 4 years. It was a pretty decent place to work when I got there but by the time I left in 2016 it was downright awful. I just talked to some buddies there and up until this COVID thing not much had changed, now they are all on mandatory half salary until this clears up. As far as your comments go about night flying, well I'm sorry to say 80% of the flying there is through a circadian low. To make matters worse they work off their own interpretation of UK regulations, meaning that 9 hr flights unaugmented are common. Average days off when I left was around 9 with more then 12 being unheard of. It was an adventure for sure, I was young and enjoyed it for the most part but its a much different company now and would not recommend it to someone (not that its an option currently) unless they are unemployed.

This discussion is pointless. No pax airline on this planet will be hiring for years to come.

Yea back in the day the place was run by bunch of lymies worried about there jobs i checked the operation out and decided against it and glad i did.
The price of oil will never rebound and the region has been going down the toilet with the loss of revenue, the honey moon is most certainly over.

Completely false. I was a 777 driver for 5 yrs out in DXB. We flew back side of the clock just as much if not more than any Fedex driver. The largest departure bank out of DXB was between 0130-0300 local. Imagine back to back night turnarounds through the night to garden spots like Karachi, Tehran, get one day off to try to recover then depart at 0230 for that wonderful Lagos layover, or maybe a nice simulator support session (yes at 0230 as well, in uniform, hope you got a nap in cause it’s potentially a jeopardy event for you too)..... It was fairly manageable when we were doing 75 hrs and 15-12 days off a month when I first got there in 2012. By the time I left we were flying 95+hrs per month and 8-10 days off per month, mixture of short, medium, long and ultra long haul. Now I’m getting paid a lot more per hour spent at work back at a US LCC, never flying much past midnight, 15+ days off, schedule flexibility, “real” bidding and bidding transparency, not have to worry about the safety department or dealing with the ever present bone crushing fatigue. It takes most people several months to regain a circadian rythm after they leave.

With all the upcoming airline bankruptcies and layoffs with experienced long haul heavy drivers looking for work they will concentrate on sucking all of those candidates up once they hire again.

Honest question, you wouldn't have rather stayed, and be at American right now?

Gasp, can’t wait to hear the response on that one!

he will never answer you


but here what a good friend of mine told me who is there (10y)

777 captain $6000 per month now — no flying
When he was flying 92 hours per month was around 14k net per month with free housing of course

So same as 777 FO pay at AMR/DL/UAL, after year 6 years net pay ....

I didn't leave, I was furloughed Nov, 2002.

The OP sounds like my 14 year old self looking into ME3 because of the equipment they fly and hot FA’s. Is it just me or?? Not sure why soo many have given detailed replies to this kid who is definitely not at a regional given the fact that he’s clueless about both cargo AND Int. Ops. I’m just an RJ pilot but I’m not this clueless, I mean cmon man. Saying you don’t want to fly for FDX because of the planes they fly is the most absurd thing I’ve heard in a while, ESPECIALLY in this climate when thousands of us, including myself, won’t be touching an airplane for years beginning October 1st. Just my 2¢

A street captain on year 1 pay gets 12k, tax free, and 4.5k accommodation allowance or a villa, children’s schooling, $190 an hour over 86 (I think).

Ive a few friends there - opinions are very mixed. There is obviously plenty wrong with EK but frankly, cash isn’t one of those things.

Dubai to Tehran in a 777? Isn’t that a 15 minute flight? What kind of ops is EX running? Also how does an American fair in Tehran?


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Again a lot of common misconceptions here in the US about EK. EK and DXB is a massive global connection operation but with a space/runway issue. Think of the ATL connection hub but on a global scale (and no ATL, nor any US hub is ideal for truly global connections). Like ATL 80% of the traffic are just connecting there. The airport is optimized as such, with transit passengers facilities so no nationality even needs a transfer visa to pass through there because they never have to go through customs. When you see that EK 777 on the ramp in a US airport somewhere, the common natural thought is that that’s EK largest airplane, no that’s it’s smallest. So that 777 from Tehran was normally full of connecting passengers to LAX, JFK, ORD, LHR, SYD, CDG and probably 50 other points that you’ve never heard of with their connections timed almost all less than 2 hours on the ground. As you can see from my previous posts I have no love lost for the place, but it is an incredibly impressive operation. Also with the massive belly holds on all those passenger widebodies and a handful of 777Fs it’s also the second largest cargo airline in the world.

As for your specific questions, I don’t know what map you are looking at but Tehran is just under a 2 hour flight, Those were just turnaround flights, they would never ask for passports, but they knew who was who and all of us were treated with much more respect by airport staff than you normally see in the US. I would be far less concerned having to overnight in Iran then Detroit. The shortest were 30 min flts to Muscat and Bahrain, again “feeding the hub”.

You might want to look at International schedules again if you have a problem with night flying. You leave the US in the afternoon and get to Europe the next morning, exhausted. Take a 4 hour nap, possibly get some exercise, eat dinner and have a beer, go to bed, get up, go home. Don’t get hung up on equipment, after a few months you’ll realize that a pretty good life on a 767 beats the heck out of getting beat up on a 777. Depending on your experience, you’d have a better chance getting hired at Atlas or Kalitta than Emirates. Probably better QOL too.

This person speaks the truth! A plane is a plane, it’s all about the balance of quality of life vs money. I never knew what fatigue really was until I flew in the sandbox!

My record was just short of 20 hours on duty, and 15:59 “scheduled block”, 2 legs, middle of the night, double augmented, 15 hours in a hotel, then leave. I agree with your fatigue statement. It’s even worse now that I’m older. I get to my European layover and just sleep. My guess is that on a 22 hour layover, I’m only vertical for about 7, and that’s in a mental fog. I’d rather do that than domestic though. If I sleep most of my international layover, I feel better going home than after a domestic 4 day.

Yea but at a US airline you actually get some time to recover between trips which makes it manageable, just like it USED to be at EK. Regardless schedules at EK vs any US airline are nowhere close to an apples to apples comparison.

I talk to the EK guys in customs. They are all beat to death. They say that you can call in fatigued, but you better spend your recovery polishing up your resume. I’d rather find work outside of aviation than go over there.

That or have your upgrade delayed or be forced to submit to a CDT liver enzyme test to test you for long term alcohol consumption, or be put under suspicion of having apnea.....right cause the schedule couldn’t possibly have caused it. This is why you have several American EK skippers returning to the rt seat of RJs. Again it was manageable and great experience back in the day, I have no regrets going over there when I did. But it’s a far different airline now.

It still had its pluses along with minuses. I just find it comical with some comments on here that Fedex flies mostly at night, much more so than Emirates when in fact the night sort in MEM is the best comparison with what happens at DXB except with passengers in addition to pallets in EKs case. Again, an incredible operation, everything meticulously controlled, everyone is kept on a very tight leash and anyone who rocks the boat has no place......just not a nice place to work these days.

I have a lot of respect for the guys who still do it. I didn't know what chronic fatique really felt like till I started doing WB and back of the clock flying. EK, Atlas etc etc guys do it all the time. FedEx/UPS sure same thing but in its own league.

I am at an LCC now flying 1 or 2 legs a day 14-22 hour layovers domestic, good downtown hotels which is ten times easier. I feel like a human being again plus work rules (always trade / drop my trips to what I want them to be for the most part) and money is good. Never want to leave here. Of course, who knows what's going to happen now with all this stuff going on but.. Still happy I am here.

Like the guy above here said though, you will get to the point where you finally realize that a plane is a plane. If the money is good then all that matters is your QOL. I could care less what I fly or what seat I am in. I want to feel healthy and happy that's all there is.

I used to do hiring for one of the bigger regionals in the U.S. and always asked my candidates; 'if the music stopped tomorrow, would you be happy being stuck here..' I would have been very happy to build my career there. Happy I moved on but would have been happy.

If you are chasing equipment and temporary IG fame you will find the emptiness of it all soon enough.

ps: my advice is to work for a company you could see yourself staying long term with when the music stops. If you want to see the world you can JS on your days off. Now of course in the new world that doesn't apply who knows what the world / industry will look like going forward, but if things somewhat normalize that would be my advice..

Interesting! Thanks for the info.


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Isn't that with anything in life? If you have the right attitude, you can go there, settle in and enjoy it. Go and do anything with a negative attitude and you'll always find a problem or issue.

Yup that’s right powesmurfuk says you should go for it. Disregard all of these responses from Guys and Gals with direct experience. Just have a good attitude going into it (cause none of us did), and that’s all there is to it. You’ll be a 777 Captain in no time! Good luck OP!

Wasnt criticizing....at least you went and have a story to tell. How many people would make that move??

No worries, My apologies if you think I took it as such. But yes we are trying tell that story to give him or her our reasoned opinions based on direct experience to help form their decision, the good, bad and ugly. But to say:

“ If you have the right attitude, you can go there, settle in and enjoy it. Go and do anything with a negative attitude and you'll always find a problem or issue.”

Is overly simplistic.

Anyways that will be my last contribution to this subject, good luck to ya!

Thanks, appreciate the responses :)

Emirates, the BEST

Emirates begins mass layoffs

Difficult to get accurate numbers but the consensus seems to be:

270 probationary pilots
600 non-probationary out of seniority based on:

Long term sick
sick calls
warning letters
training failures
possibly age to retirement?

Majority from the A380 so far. Of the 600 most recent it is 400+ from A380.

add 7000 flight attendants and 17% of mechanics/engineering staff.

Pretty grim

I think the total pilot list was a tad over 4000 before this began.